RE: New Porsche 911 Caught Naked

[nickfrog]

British Beef said:

If Im honest, I am no Porsche fan, however what I do like is fast, balanced RWD cars with a charismatic engine mated to a manual gearbox.

911 is inherently imbalanced though. Massive pogo from the front end on turn in only just saved by huge traction past the apex.

[BMWill]

RonnieP said:

Eh? AM were kicking out DB6's at the 911 introduction

At least Porsche are honest about it.

All Aston seems to do in terms of road cars nowadays is tweak the ECU a little bit and redesign bumpers.

It baffles me that they have the cheek to offer the Virage, DB9 and DBS and refer to them as completely different models... They're the same bloody car!

[Kong]

kambites said:

MX7 said:

You do realise that this is a car forum? What would be boring would be everyone saying how wonderful it is.

I sometimes think that's what some people on here want, especially (but not uniquely) fans of certain German car brands.

That's what single marque forums are for - blind praise of cars and a complete denial of their faults. Personally, I prefer a forum where people are critical of cars, even if I often don't agree with them.

Except you moan about everything. Modern cars, turbo cars, automatic cars, FWD cars, German cars, new cars, silver cars, safe cars, cars with big wheels, cars with a high 3/4 panels. Basically just about anything which isn't a Lotus!

It's nothing personal, just something ive noticed every time you post in GG - nothing ever compares.

The 997 is a fantastic car with a characterful engine, great chassis, ride, cornering with a quality and comfortable interior. My only complaint at modern 911's in regular guise is that they are a bit boring to look at from the outside.

I'm sure the 991/998 will be better in every way.

Also the 911 is a sportscar, not a GT.

[Verde]

I'm beginning to agree with this sentiment. Although I love my 997S Cab, I went to the dealer to test drive a Lotus 240 and totally and thoroughly enjoyed it. ANd when I stepped back in to the Porsche it felt, well, huge. And the new car is bigger still. People will say it's only 2" here, 1.5" there. But it brings mass (though not in this case), a larger polar moment of inertia (inevitable here) and on.
However for those who think they'd be happier with a 993, I'd think again. It is of course the most beautiful of 911's (IMHO) but a few minutes revving a two valve per cylinder engine, a slower gearbox and you'll be wishing for new tech. Taking a GT3 and shrinking it down - in size, and in power would be just about perfect.

kambites said:

The 911 has been a big GT type car for a long time. They have the Cayman as a small (although even that isn't particularly small) sports car.

[Beefmeister]

I think it'll look great when released. The wheels are particularly nice on this generation.

But what was with the camerman? Does he have Parkinsons?

[Mx5guy]

Has no-one pointed out the mistake yet? PH, get your act together, you've posted up the wrong video of a 997.

[nickfrog]

Verde said:

a larger polar moment of inertia (inevitable here) and on.

I think they have recentred the mass and the engine is slightly more forward thanks to the added space so it looks like the PMOI might actually be lower.

[Ftumpch]

Driving-wise I'm not a Porsche fan at all, but I think this car looks great. It's a little more subtly curvaceous than the back-to-basics previous model and has a bit of Panamera lineage. It looks more... expensive, that's it.

oh well, I can't afford one anyway

[kambites]

Kong said:

Except you moan about everything. Modern cars, turbo cars, automatic cars, FWD cars, German cars, new cars, silver cars, safe cars, cars with big wheels, cars with a high 3/4 panels. Basically just about anything which isn't a Lotus!

It's nothing personal, just something ive noticed every time you post in GG - nothing ever compares.

The 997 is a fantastic car with a characterful engine, great chassis, ride, cornering with a quality and comfortable interior. My only complaint at modern 911's in regular guise is that they are a bit boring to look at from the outside.

I'm sure the 991/998 will be better in every way.

Also the 911 is a sportscar, not a GT.

No, I "moan" about things I don't like; that's what a discussion Forum is for, discussing what we do and don't like. I also have no particular affiliation to Lotus and indeed I moan about them as much as anything else at the moment - I started to lose interest in their cars when the weight of the Elise shot up with the Toyota power plants. I love my car (I'd imagine that most people on here love their own cars - that'd be why they bought them) but I acknowledge that it has a large number of flaws.

I am fully aware that the 997 is a fantastic car and I have never said that it's not. It is not, however, a flawless car. For some reason, people seem to take far more offense when people discuss the flaws in Porsches than when people discuss the flaws in any other brand's cars.

The 911 is not a sports car, at least to my mind. Even the 993 was starting to push into GT territory. The 996 was a (very good) GT and the 997 just cemented that. However, the term does not have a concrete definition, so if you want to call it a sports car, you're welcome to.

[kambites]

Verde said:

Taking a GT3 and shrinking it down - in size, and in power would be just about perfect.

Indeed. I wish Porsche would make a Cayman GT3.

[Hellbound]

I'm going to own a 911 12 months from now. It's a determined goal I've set. Not just because they're great cars, but because from what I've seen, women drop their knickers for one.

There's no such thing as an ugly rich bloke 911 owner.

[Hellbound]

kambites said:

Indeed. I wish Porsche would make a Cayman GT3.

Trouble is they'd end up pricing it well within 911 territory. You'd be in the strange situation of choosing between a new Cayman GT3 and a year old 911 GT3 in the showroom.

If they could do it below £60k I think it would cannibalize 911 GT3 sales.

All bulls*it speculation of course because I've not long got out of bed.

[VPower]

What happens when they get to 999?

1011? 1911? or just 911 again?


Joking and baiting aside, evolution of the platform is very pure in engineering terms.

I would be interested to hear what owners of successive models say.

Did have a fella at work who showed me photos of his 19th Porsche once!
Got new one EVERY Year apparently!
Died of heart attack 18 months ago unfortunately so never did get a ride in it!

[kambites]

Well OK then, a Cayman CS.

If they took the Cayman, stripped it back to the rolling chassis and then fitted some basic sound deadening, a couple of lightly padded fixed back bucket seats and nothing else as standard (but allowed to specification of everything available in the normal Cayman should people want it) they could easily sell it for list price of the current Cayman at a far greater profit margin, couldn't they?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th August 08:45

[Oddball RS]

kambites said:

Well OK then, a Cayman CS.

If they took the Cayman, stripped it back to the rolling chassis and then fitted some basic sound deadening, a couple of lightly padded fixed back bucket seats and nothing else as standard (but allowed to specification of everything available in the normal Cayman should people want it) they could easily sell it for list price of the current Cayman at a far greater profit margin, couldn't they?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th August 08:45

But then again i don't want a Cayman CS/GT3 etc because i think it is an ugly unresolved shape and has just two seats.

The 911 is THE sports 2 plus 2, yes it pogo's and yes it is not faultless, but it is better built / cheaper to run / depreciates less than almost any other car in its niche, and tbh it amuses the hell out of me that if you learn to drive one well even with the engine in the wrong place, they are quicker than most mid engined strictly two seater (supercars?).

In short i think it represents better value to a wider audience and that is why it is a success, and then to boot the new 3.4l emits just under 200g/km which is great, and no blown 4 cylinder in sight! Good for Porsche.

[kambites]

Oddball RS said:

But then again i don't want a Cayman CS/GT3 etc because i think it is an ugly unresolved shape and has just two seats.

I wasn't suggesting that they should stop making the 911 in order to make a more focused Cayman! I meant as well.

I have massive respect for the 911 and if I was ever forced into getting a 2+2, it would be right at the top of my list of cars to consider. I actually rather like the static weight distribution of the 911 (hardly surprisingly considering how similar it is what I drive at the moment) but I can fully understand why many people don't.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th August 09:15

[Kong]

kambites said:

The 911 is not a sports car, at least to my mind. Even the 993 was starting to push into GT territory. The 996 was a (very good) GT and the 997 just cemented that. However, the term does not have a concrete definition, so if you want to call it a sports car, you're welcome to.

Well sure, everyone can have their own definition, you could call a Caterham a pickup truck if you wanted to.

Just because a 911 isn't an Elise doesn't mean its not a sports car. A Continental GT, DB9, Merc CL - these are GT cars.

[kambites]

Kong said:

Well sure, everyone can have their own definition, you could call a Caterham a pickup truck if you wanted to.

Just because a 911 isn't an Elise doesn't mean its not a sports car. A Continental GT, DB9, Merc CL - these are GT cars.

As I said, I'm happy for everyone to have their own definition. To me the 911 is a GT - a car whose primary design goal is to cover long distances in comfort. Yes, it handles extremely well, but then so do lots of things that I wouldn't call sports cars.

ETA: I mean the 911 in its "softer" forms - the Carreras and Turbos of this world, not the GT3, GT2, etc.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th August 09:49

[Kong]

kambites said:

Kong said:

Well sure, everyone can have their own definition, you could call a Caterham a pickup truck if you wanted to.

Just because a 911 isn't an Elise doesn't mean its not a sports car. A Continental GT, DB9, Merc CL - these are GT cars.

As I said, I'm happy for everyone to have their own definition. To me the 911 is a GT - a car whose primary design goal is to cover long distances in comfort. Yes, it handles extremely well, but then so do lots of things that I wouldn't call sports cars.

I don't think the primary goal of a C2S or GT3 is to cover distances in comfort, it's to go round corners fast. By that logic the sports car is almost extinct in 'mainstream' form. A Z4, SLK, 370Z are all sports cars yet are similar to the 911 in terms of comfort and size therefore they can't be sports cars either. So what does that leave? MX5 and the Boxsterman?

[kambites]

Kong said:

I don't think the primary goal of a C2S or GT3 is to cover distances in comfort, it's to go round corners fast.

I disagree about the C2S. Such is life.