CTR ep3.....thoughts
Discussion
Good choice. Probably my favourite modern hot hatch. Just one word of warning. Get an insurance quote before you set your heart on one. I wanted to buy one when I was 24 but didn't because the insurance would have been £3000. That was 7 years ago so things may have changed now. The next best hot hatch of that age that I have driven would be a Golf GTI. Fantastic car but perhaps over your budget and not what you're after (quite a diesel-like power delivery).
If you want something normally-aspirated and revvy, also consider a Clio 182/197 or Toyota Corolla/Celica 190. I looked at a Celica 190 at the same time and the insurance was only £800 for a similair level of performance. If you don't mind going a bit older, a tidy Corrado VR6 would also put a smile on your face or I even looked at mk4 Golf R32s recently and insurance was surprisingly reasonable (cheaper than my Impreza WRX). Great noise too!
A couple more suggestions. Focus ST. Not as small and chuckable as a Type-R but great engine and gearbox. An MG ZS 180 (2.5 V6) would also be worth a look. The looks might not be to your taste but cheap, fast and surprisingly good to drive. They used to be popular with race schools.
Good luck whatever you go for and enjoy!
If you want something normally-aspirated and revvy, also consider a Clio 182/197 or Toyota Corolla/Celica 190. I looked at a Celica 190 at the same time and the insurance was only £800 for a similair level of performance. If you don't mind going a bit older, a tidy Corrado VR6 would also put a smile on your face or I even looked at mk4 Golf R32s recently and insurance was surprisingly reasonable (cheaper than my Impreza WRX). Great noise too!
A couple more suggestions. Focus ST. Not as small and chuckable as a Type-R but great engine and gearbox. An MG ZS 180 (2.5 V6) would also be worth a look. The looks might not be to your taste but cheap, fast and surprisingly good to drive. They used to be popular with race schools.
Good luck whatever you go for and enjoy!
Edited by white_goodman on Tuesday 9th August 10:53
I've had an EP3 and, while it was a good car with great handling, i got sick of having to rev it really high to get the power from it. I'm now in a Mk4 R32 and I much prefer it, economy is pretty similar although the golf was slightly more expensive. The R32 is much more comfortable and civilised, depends what you’re after though.
I ended up with two of them. First one I sold at 90k miles and it was only just starting to show its age. The clutch was on its way out but otherwise spot on - seats still supportive and pulled well. I had a Premier Edition after that and it was better again. Neither used a drop of oil or suffered any kind of mechanical malady. Took the second one as far as Spa and even a 10 hour day behind the wheel was fine. I wouldn't hesitate to have another if the situation arose.
I find that the VRS is deceptively slow. Mine has also been remapped and it feels like you are going a lot faster than you, personally i think its the kick from the torque. Had a play with a few CTR's and I would say they are are a fair bit quicker in a line and far better in the twisties. It could just be me though
I would recommend one. I really liked my EP3, felt well built, very nice to drive. The only reason I got rid was because I wanted an Evo.
The turbo hatches may be a little faster in a straight line (not that much, but they do feel faster) but the engine in the CTR sounds better and the throttle response is far far better. As a package the CTR isnt behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6BTrKmyAAc
The turbo hatches may be a little faster in a straight line (not that much, but they do feel faster) but the engine in the CTR sounds better and the throttle response is far far better. As a package the CTR isnt behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6BTrKmyAAc
chevronb37 said:
I ended up with two of them. First one I sold at 90k miles and it was only just starting to show its age. The clutch was on its way out but otherwise spot on - seats still supportive and pulled well. I had a Premier Edition after that and it was better again. Neither used a drop of oil or suffered any kind of mechanical malady. Took the second one as far as Spa and even a 10 hour day behind the wheel was fine. I wouldn't hesitate to have another if the situation arose.
Im looking at a premier one just love the recaros and seriously want A/CYeah go for it, I loved mine, engine and gear change were excellent, was well built and always got me home.
They have a few bad points which you should be aware of, the steering can lack a bit of feel and when your tired or don't feel like driving the car can be tiresome, the nature of the power delivery and hard damping being the main issues. The damping can also make it a bit fidgity on rough roads and wheelspin can be an issue in the wet, on the Bridgestone RE040s anyway.
However, they are great cars and are quick in the right hands. Unlike the VAG products, they enjoy a bit of lift off oversteer, left foot braking and they sound great too.
Options I would recommend are A/C and Tweeters (makes the stereo a bit better). Also watch for corroded wheels, common problem.
They have a few bad points which you should be aware of, the steering can lack a bit of feel and when your tired or don't feel like driving the car can be tiresome, the nature of the power delivery and hard damping being the main issues. The damping can also make it a bit fidgity on rough roads and wheelspin can be an issue in the wet, on the Bridgestone RE040s anyway.
However, they are great cars and are quick in the right hands. Unlike the VAG products, they enjoy a bit of lift off oversteer, left foot braking and they sound great too.
Options I would recommend are A/C and Tweeters (makes the stereo a bit better). Also watch for corroded wheels, common problem.
Im going to go the other way here........
Hated it!!!!!!!
Hated more than anything on this planet! I even liked a Deisel Golf better than that car! I liked my Subaru which broke down every Monday better than the car.
To me.........
It felt cheap, the engine almost felt and drove like it was a plastic toy, i thought it was quite skittish (which is something i didnt expect), reliable enough..... i thought the get up and go was fairly decent below its 6k, and the vtec did come in well. I didnt think it drove particularly well.
I had an Mr2 turbo before that.... so its not like i was coming from some German Luxo barge before that and was spoilt with quality (although i do think the Mr2 is very well made)
What i would suggest instead is a good Evo 6 or the DC5 Integra.... Other options include a BMW 330ci clubsport, E36 M3.
Good luck anyway, why dont you go try a few.
Hated it!!!!!!!
Hated more than anything on this planet! I even liked a Deisel Golf better than that car! I liked my Subaru which broke down every Monday better than the car.
To me.........
It felt cheap, the engine almost felt and drove like it was a plastic toy, i thought it was quite skittish (which is something i didnt expect), reliable enough..... i thought the get up and go was fairly decent below its 6k, and the vtec did come in well. I didnt think it drove particularly well.
I had an Mr2 turbo before that.... so its not like i was coming from some German Luxo barge before that and was spoilt with quality (although i do think the Mr2 is very well made)
What i would suggest instead is a good Evo 6 or the DC5 Integra.... Other options include a BMW 330ci clubsport, E36 M3.
Good luck anyway, why dont you go try a few.
bdgriffiths said:
I find that the VRS is deceptively slow. Mine has also been remapped and it feels like you are going a lot faster than you, personally i think its the kick from the torque. Had a play with a few CTR's and I would say they are are a fair bit quicker in a line and far better in the twisties. It could just be me though
Your Maps not up to much then because mine was all over them.You cant drive a VRS like a petrol, it meant changing up at 4k revs and riding the torque, then it stayed with a CTR.
The VRS rolls too much compared to a CTR, however the op wants to pay £4000-£5000 more for one, which is a sillyu amount of money for something marginally better at going around bends.
I had one from new. It was a great car and the gearchange is so ridiculously slick, you can't stop using it just for the tactile pleasure.
The interior was a bit plasticky and the Recaro seats didn't tip forward far enough without jibbing into the roof, making access to the rear annoying and the seat position has to be reset every time and overall, it still had a bit of that Japanese quality of being an appliance but mainly because it was undemanding.
It was very chuckable and the engine had plenty of grunt. Came back from an airport late one night and maintained a 110 lepton cruise along what must have been an unrestricted road. 80 is about 4000rpm but it's not intrusive and the engine revs to 8000. Still miss it now. I think they do need the original Bridgestones to get the best from them though.
Try and get one with air con though and the revised one from 2004-on.
The interior was a bit plasticky and the Recaro seats didn't tip forward far enough without jibbing into the roof, making access to the rear annoying and the seat position has to be reset every time and overall, it still had a bit of that Japanese quality of being an appliance but mainly because it was undemanding.
It was very chuckable and the engine had plenty of grunt. Came back from an airport late one night and maintained a 110 lepton cruise along what must have been an unrestricted road. 80 is about 4000rpm but it's not intrusive and the engine revs to 8000. Still miss it now. I think they do need the original Bridgestones to get the best from them though.
Try and get one with air con though and the revised one from 2004-on.
shibby! said:
Im going to go the other way here........
Hated it!!!!!!!
Hated more than anything on this planet! I even liked a Deisel Golf better than that car! I liked my Subaru which broke down every Monday better than the car.
To me.........
It felt cheap, the engine almost felt and drove like it was a plastic toy, i thought it was quite skittish (which is something i didnt expect), reliable enough..... i thought the get up and go was fairly decent below its 6k, and the vtec did come in well. I didnt think it drove particularly well.
I had an Mr2 turbo before that.... so its not like i was coming from some German Luxo barge before that and was spoilt with quality (although i do think the Mr2 is very well made)
What i would suggest instead is a good Evo 6 or the DC5 Integra.... Other options include a BMW 330ci clubsport, E36 M3.
Good luck anyway, why dont you go try a few.
So after saying all that you recommend a DC5. Very confused.Hated it!!!!!!!
Hated more than anything on this planet! I even liked a Deisel Golf better than that car! I liked my Subaru which broke down every Monday better than the car.
To me.........
It felt cheap, the engine almost felt and drove like it was a plastic toy, i thought it was quite skittish (which is something i didnt expect), reliable enough..... i thought the get up and go was fairly decent below its 6k, and the vtec did come in well. I didnt think it drove particularly well.
I had an Mr2 turbo before that.... so its not like i was coming from some German Luxo barge before that and was spoilt with quality (although i do think the Mr2 is very well made)
What i would suggest instead is a good Evo 6 or the DC5 Integra.... Other options include a BMW 330ci clubsport, E36 M3.
Good luck anyway, why dont you go try a few.
A nice E36 is a good shout though.
AshBaldry said:
Just to add...don't let people tell you "yeah there useless before Vtec"
Or
"You need to redline them to get anywhere"
They perform IMHO,fine before 6,000RPM
They do indeed. So many seem to totally fail when trying to understand VTEC/iVTEC.Or
"You need to redline them to get anywhere"
They perform IMHO,fine before 6,000RPM
In fact a CTR will make as much or more low end torque as any other 2.0 n/a motor. So they are in fact very grunty for their displacement.
However there is a flip side to this.
1. The CTR (or VTEC) is so strong on the top end power, that it does create a stark difference between low end and high end performance. So despite making good low end grunt for it's displacement, this contrast in performance can make it feel flat lower down as a comparison. And there's no denying to make the most of the power and performance you do have to drive it hard.
2. It does actually lack grunt when compared to other 200-220hp solutions and alternatives, e.g. bigger displacement and/or forced induction.
Recently went from a 2004 EP3 CTR I owned since 2005 to a 2008 Porsche Cayman S - in the space of 2 months I've had to pay to fix an oil leak, worn steering knuckle joint and replace all 4 brake discs that were showing signs of corrosion.
EP3 CTR is still on its original brake discs 40k+ miles later. I've also never had to have anything replaced on it under warranty. Ever.
So yeah, reliability is pretty fantastic on the Type-R.
EP3 CTR is still on its original brake discs 40k+ miles later. I've also never had to have anything replaced on it under warranty. Ever.
So yeah, reliability is pretty fantastic on the Type-R.
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