When did mercs stop being built like a merc

[HairbearTE]

tangerine_sedge said:

I don't know what metal MB uses, but I was shocked to see the other day -

(1) A 10 year old E class estate with rust all over the rear door and wheel-arches. Could have had a hard life, but then so do plenty of Volvos and Beemers...
(2) A 4 year old MB sprinter van with rust all over the back doors- around the hinges, locks, handles etc.

It was pretty suprising (especially the van), it was the level of rust you used to see on '70s period BL and Fiats!

I can't comment on the quality of the metal used (though certainly there is a lot of recycled steel around now with allsorts in it) but the main reason Mercs of this era rust is due to an Electrolytic reaction brought on by the wide variety of materials/alloys used in the construction. Although this principle has of course long been understood it was not anticipated that it would cause such mayhem. Pre-facelift 215 chassis CL500's etc were getting full resprays and even reshelled under warranty because the problems were bad and the owners of such vehicles very particular. In the 215 chassis at least I believe the post 2003 facelift models are much less affected.

[diddles]

tangerine_sedge said:

I don't know what metal MB uses, but I was shocked to see the other day -

(1) A 10 year old E class estate with rust all over the rear door and wheel-arches. Could have had a hard life, but then so do plenty of Volvos and Beemers...
(2) A 4 year old MB sprinter van with rust all over the back doors- around the hinges, locks, handles etc.

It was pretty suprising (especially the van), it was the level of rust you used to see on '70s period BL and Fiats!

Am surprised you are shocked to see a 10 year old Mercedes with rust issues. I would be more shocked to see one without.

The problem is, I believe, largely down to the introduction of water based paints which Mercedes started using around 1997. This was brought about by health and safety regulations.

Certain paint colours do seem to be affected more than others with metallic’s especially being the worse offenders.

IMO any Mercedes built between 96 and 2003 should be avoided. Apparently they sorted the problems with paint quality after 2003ish however only time can tell?

Mercedes aren’t alone though, cars from other manufactures from the same period seem to be have similar issues. BMW for one springs to mind.

[atlex]

Lots of mention of paint and rust, nothing about build quality ?

That is what I noticed the most - the mid 90s cars just started to feel like ticky tacky boxes instead of Mercedes Benzes. Wouldn't consider anything but an AMG from '96 onwards, since at least that gives you a chance that they might be put together correctly.

[bennyboydurham]

I had a 2002 SLK which felt pretty tight (I suppose it was actually designed in around '95 before the rot set in) but it had lots of niggly problems with injectors, driveline components, trim and other bits so I got shot of it before it had hit 80k miles, not great for a car that was at time was only four years old. It put me off MB for good, I'm afraid.

[r129sl]

There isn't a single date: rather, as new models came in, they were built to a lower standard. Thus the w201, built from 1983 to 1993, is fine throughout. The w124, built from 1985 to 1996 is fine throughout. The w140, built from 1991 to 1998, is likewise good. The r129, built from 1989 to 2001 is great. The r170 (first gen SLK) is probably the latest model worth having, although it has had rust issues. Once a model is in production, not much changes.

The first really cheapened car was the 202, then the 210, then the 220.

A lot of people blame water-based paints, but other manufacturers have used them without the same kind of problems. I understand the problem to be the treatment that Merc applied to the bare metal. I would also blame the headlong rush toward immature electronic gadgets.

[irf]

used to have a 98' S class, loved that thing, felt like it was made from granite. it developed an intermittant misfiring problem that developed into a continous misfiring problem that no specialist or mercedes main dealer could solve!

[flatline84]

r129sl said:

There isn't a single date: rather, as new models came in, they were built to a lower standard. Thus the w201, built from 1983 to 1993, is fine throughout. The w124, built from 1985 to 1996 is fine throughout. The w140, built from 1991 to 1998, is likewise good. The r129, built from 1989 to 2001 is great.

Appearently the earlier W140s were better built, better materials and details etc. It got more gadgets and a new gearbox etc through the ages, so its a tradeoff, but general consensus is that the earlier cars were better screwed together.

[theironduke]

My 126 SEC has the most solid door slam of any car i've ever owned, just so weighty and "right".

[billzeebub]

late 1990s

[morgrp]

bazking69 said:

The rot started in the early to mid 90s with the new generation of C and E class due to cost and corner cutting. Even throughout most of the 00's, they were still riding on the brand qualities that had established them but that simply weren't there anymore in most cars.
My personal opinion is that they have only made headway in quality in the last couple of years. They've really upped their game of late, especially in terms of looks, but in reality they needed to considering they are promoting premium products in a competitive market.

Agreed from my dealings in the trade the general consensus is approx 94(model dependent) to about 2004(all models were ste) really I'd say the original c-class while better than many was the beginning of the end

[Kolbenkopp]

r129sl said:

There isn't a single date: rather, as new models came in, they were built to a lower standard. Thus the w201, built from 1983 to 1993, is fine throughout. The w124, built from 1985 to 1996 is fine throughout. The w140, built from 1991 to 1998, is likewise good. The r129, built from 1989 to 2001 is great. [...]
The first really cheapened car was the 202, then the 210, then the 220.

Fully agree with that. I was working (trainee) at MB when the W202 came out to replace the 190. The sales people were very unhappy and wondered how the customers would react to the cheapened trim and general lower quality feel of the C-Class. For most, that marked the beginning of the end of Gottlieb Daimler's motto "the best or nothing".

[tali1]

theironduke said:

My 126 SEC has the most solid door slam of any car i've ever owned, just so weighty and "right".

First Merc i sat in was 190 -i recall trying the dooe slam test - is that it? - i was very disappointed

[v8will]

atlex said:

Lots of mention of paint and rust, nothing about build quality ?

That is what I noticed the most - the mid 90s cars just started to feel like ticky tacky boxes instead of Mercedes Benzes. Wouldn't consider anything but an AMG from '96 onwards, since at least that gives you a chance that they might be put together correctly.

Nope, AMG just as bad. Same body panels, same paint.

[Heretic]

I had an '89 560 SE, with over 300,000 miles on the odometer. It ran like a champ until a deer decided to play chicken with my wife...
I liked the car, partially because it was almost impossible to get a short wheel base 560 sedan in the US. It is always cool to have something just a little different than what everyone else has

[JoeFrost]

excel monkey said:

The reason they're so bargainous is because everybody knows they rust/break so much!

I quite like the looks of the W210 estate. Are they worth the effort, if you can get a decent one and stay on top of the rust?

Sorry to but ffs. Women eh? Driving in flip flops.

[GTIR]

My 1990 190 was seriously over engineered and solid as a rock.
I've heard of many problems with Mercs from 1997 to 2004ish, which is the 210 model and even some 211 until the facelift version in 06.

I've got a 2007 with 350,000 and it's a dream (two wheelbearings, one injector seal) but still looks good with interior and exterior looking fresh.

I had a 212 for a week and noticed a drop in build quality (Merc say it's weight saving) and finish. Didn't feel like a merc sadly.

I'd go for a 300 or 200 if I had too.


The comments are rust are to do with a change in paint process and the paint was lifting off the bodywork allowing moisture to get between the metal and paint. That's according to a tech at DuPont.

[paul0843]

There was a time when you could drive a mercedes blindfolded and you knew you were driving a mercedes...

Unfortunately that's not the case any more...

[B Huey]

The W124 is often quoted as being the last quality Merc, but even these were affected by poorer build quality in later years. The change came when the model name changed format from 300E to E300.

I've no personal experience of this, just something I read when researching them.

Great cars though.

Don't overlook the 190e either, they appear to be fairly bombproof.

Edited by B Huey on Sunday 23 October 09:28

[andy-integrale]

B Huey said:

The W124 is often quoted as being the last quality Merc, but even these were affected by poorer build quality in later years. The change came when the model name changed format from 300E to E300.

I've no personal experience of this, just something I read when researching them.

Great cars though.

Don't overlook the 190e either, they appear to be fairly bombproof.

Edited by B Huey on Sunday 23 October 09:28

A base W124 estate cost around £27K in 1990. That's probably £43 to £45k in todays money when a new S212 Estate probably starts at around £30K and will be significantly more " complex". Even allowing for better production techniques and processes i guess the over engineering is the thing to suffer.

[Bhuvsta]

My dads '89 190 was a wonderful car. In the time he owned it I only recall two things breaking - the exhaust and a distributor cap. That and the amount of rust bubbles that came up UNDER the paint. Apart from that everyone loved it - friends and family. I would love another one.