RE: Ferrari Says 'No' To Electric Cars...

[XitUp]

k-ink said:

Damn right. All your doing with electric cars is moving the problem - into disposable nasty batteries. About time other companies grew a pair and acted accordingly.

Which electric cars use nasty disposable batteries?

McTaffity said:

Well done Luca!

Electric cars are cobblers. They are not the future, and have in fact been around for a hundred years - they have never worked.

Hydrogen fuel cells are the way forward, but not sure why any luxury car manufacturer would be even looking at this solution. If you can afford a Ferrari, you can afford petrol, and as long as the specialist car "population" all have catalyctic converters (with more improvements to petrol engine's green credentials on the way), the damage to the environment will be negligible.

1. Hydrogen fuel cell cars ARE electric cars.
2. Where does the hydrogen come from?
3. Have you seen how inefficient they are?


Please PH, can we have a sticky thread explaining all this to the simple people that can be linked into any thread that mentions electric cars?

[Owlwood]

kotafey said:

Mmmmmm... it looks quite tasty in salad green. Not sure I've ever seen one in that colour

Yeah, im liking that colour.

[forzaminardi]

I'm definitely going to buy a Ferrari now.

[roachcoach]

loose cannon said:

He will eat those words in a few years time if he hasn't been replaced by then

I suspect he probably meant battery powered ones.

Electric is fine, the problems right now are fuelling them. The irony is delicious.


I don't hold the belief a fuel cell is a battery before anyone says anything

[Gorbyrev]

One to add to the PH sticky. Hydrogen cars may be electric if they use hydrogen to power a fuel cell that powers an electric motor. However, you can use hydrogen as a straight combustible fuel as BMW and Mazda have done. About 70% of the combustible energy of standard unleaded as I remember with all the flexibility of current technology for tuning, forced induction etc. A hydrogen M5 might still have a twin turbo V8 for example. The exciting developments are ones that are developing the technology to take hydrogen straight from the atmosphere. So hydrogen infrastructure could support electric and internal combustion powerplants.

Edited by Gorbyrev on Friday 19th August 09:49

[thinfourth2]

Gorbyrev said:

One to add to the PH sticky. Hydrogen cars may be electric if they use hydrogen to power a fuel cell that powers an electric motor. However, you can use hydrogen as a straight combustible fuel as BMW and Mazda have done. About 70% of the combustible energy of standard unleaded as I remember with all the flexibility of current technology for tuning, forced induction etc. A hydrogen M5 might still have a twin turbo V8 for example. The exciting developments are ones that are developing the technology to take hydrogen straight from the atmosphere. So hydrogen infrastructure could support electric and internal combustion powerplants.

Edited by Gorbyrev on Friday 19th August 09:49

yes but that makes a "vrooom" noise and it has been scientifically proved that anything that makes a "vrooom" noise cannot be enviormentally friendly

[alexpa]

What about the new electric 458 Italia Spyder?

http://store.ferrari.com/en/sports-games/games/rid...

[Mr Gear]

thinfourth2 said:

Gorbyrev said:

One to add to the PH sticky. Hydrogen cars may be electric if they use hydrogen to power a fuel cell that powers an electric motor. However, you can use hydrogen as a straight combustible fuel as BMW and Mazda have done. About 70% of the combustible energy of standard unleaded as I remember with all the flexibility of current technology for tuning, forced induction etc. A hydrogen M5 might still have a twin turbo V8 for example. The exciting developments are ones that are developing the technology to take hydrogen straight from the atmosphere. So hydrogen infrastructure could support electric and internal combustion powerplants.

Edited by Gorbyrev on Friday 19th August 09:49

yes but that makes a "vrooom" noise and it has been scientifically proved that anything that makes a "vrooom" noise cannot be enviormentally friendly

In all seriousness, I posed this question to a GM fuel cell engineer, and he said "Hydrogen internal combustion engines are a great way to waste hydrogen."

Fuel cells are 10x more efficient at turning hydrogen into motive power, which is why BMW and Mazda have gone quiet on the subject and are working on electric cars instead, knowing they can substitute a fuel cell for a battery should the technology ever truly come on-line.

[McTaffity]

XitUp said:

1. Hydrogen fuel cell cars ARE electric cars.
2. Where does the hydrogen come from?
3. Have you seen how inefficient they are?


Please PH, can we have a sticky thread explaining all this to the simple people that can be linked into any thread that mentions electric cars?

1. Yes, they both have an electric motor, but you do understand that the technology is fundamentally different, and when people talk about Fuel Cells and Electric cars they are talking about two different things?
2. Er... it's the most common material in the Universe. A much better question in this case would be where does the electricity for a conventional electric car come from? The technology to extract Hydrogen may not be perfect at the moment, but nor is battery design. Also, Hydrogen is the way to go long, long term (it's never going to run out), so let's concentrate on that now.
3. As opposed to what? A conventional electric car? (See how I've put "conventional" before "electric car"? - that's for your benefit).

I'm all for having a "sticky thread explaining all this to the simple people that can be linked into any thread that mentions electric cars" as long as you promise to read it.

[thinfourth2]

McTaffity said:

2. Er... it's the most common material in the Universe. A much better question in this case would be where does the electricity for a conventional electric car come from? The technology to extract Hydrogen may not be perfect at the moment, but nor is battery design. Also, Hydrogen is the way to go long, long term (it's never going to run out), so let's concentrate on that now.
.

So we can't have electric cars because we don't have enough electricty to run them

However we can have hydrogen cars because we have enough electricty to produce hydrogen from water

I'm glad that is clear

Hydrogen is an energy storage medium nothing more it is not a fuel

[Mr Gear]

McTaffity said:

1. Yes, they both have an electric motor, but you do understand that the technology is fundamentally different, and when people talk about Fuel Cells and Electric cars they are talking about two different things?
2. Er... it's the most common material in the Universe. A much better question in this case would be where does the electricity for a conventional electric car come from? The technology to extract Hydrogen may not be perfect at the moment, but nor is battery design. Also, Hydrogen is the way to go long, long term (it's never going to run out), so let's concentrate on that now.
3. As opposed to what? A conventional electric car? (See how I've put "conventional" before "electric car"? - that's for your benefit).

I'm all for having a "sticky thread explaining all this to the simple people that can be linked into any thread that mentions electric cars" as long as you promise to read it.

^ This sort of post is why we need a sticky. Even people who understand the basics of the argument still make the mistakes that lead the whole discussion astray.

[McTaffity]

thinfourth2 said:

So we can't have electric cars because we don't have enough electricty to run them

However we can have hydrogen cars because we have enough electricty to produce hydrogen from water

I'm glad that is clear

Hydrogen is an energy storage medium nothing more it is not a fuel

The point I was making, is that electricity for conventional electric cars still has to be produced in Power Stations which is not environmentally friendly.

[Mr Gear]

McTaffity said:

The point I was making, is that electricity for conventional electric cars still has to be produced in Power Stations which is not environmentally friendly.

You can make electricity without burning any fossil fuels. You can also make hydrogen without burning fossil fuels too, but it takes st-load of electricity.

You can't just wave a net around in the air and gather up some hydrogen. You need to put a lot of energy in to get a little hydrogen out. That is the problem with it as a storage medium, and you still need a good electric car at the heart of it all to make it work.

[thinfourth2]

McTaffity said:

thinfourth2 said:

So we can't have electric cars because we don't have enough electricty to run them

However we can have hydrogen cars because we have enough electricty to produce hydrogen from water

I'm glad that is clear

Hydrogen is an energy storage medium nothing more it is not a fuel

The point I was making, is that electricity for conventional electric cars still has to be produced in Power Stations which is not environmentally friendly.

So electricty used for electric car is bad

Electricity for hydrogen is good

how about electrity for toasters

Is that good or bad electricty?

[McTaffity]

Mr Gear said:

^ This sort of post is why we need a sticky. Even people who understand the basics of the argument still make the mistakes that lead the whole discussion astray.

How exactly has the discussion been lead astray?

[McTaffity]

thinfourth2 said:

McTaffity said:

thinfourth2 said:

So we can't have electric cars because we don't have enough electricty to run them

However we can have hydrogen cars because we have enough electricty to produce hydrogen from water

I'm glad that is clear

Hydrogen is an energy storage medium nothing more it is not a fuel

The point I was making, is that electricity for conventional electric cars still has to be produced in Power Stations which is not environmentally friendly.

So electricty used for electric car is bad

Electricity for hydrogen is good

how about electrity for toasters

Is that good or bad electricty?

Blimey, a lot of people on Pistonheads really like electric cars!

According to environmentalists, it's bad. I don't give two hoots though.

[thinfourth2]

McTaffity said:

Blimey, a lot of people on Pistonheads really like electric cars!

According to environmentalists, it's bad. I don't give two hoots though.

Hydrogen cars are electric cars

Hydrogen doesn't magic out of thin air

You need electricty to get hydrogen from water

the electrity to power electric cars, make hydrogen and power toasters all has to be generated by something going round and round.

How we make something go round and round is the real key to the debate

[Mr Gear]

McTaffity said:

How exactly has the discussion been lead astray?

Because we are answering questions that have arisen due to your ignorance instead of discussing stuff that this thread is supposed to be about. Why are we talking about hydrogen in this thread? The original article didn't mention it once.

[McTaffity]

Mr Gear said:

Because we are answering questions that have arisen due to your ignorance instead of discussing stuff that this thread is supposed to be about. Why are we talking about hydrogen in this thread? The original article didn't mention it once.

If you read my original post, you would know that all I said was Hydrogen Fuel Cells is the technology manufacturers should be concentrating on instead of conventional electric - hardly off topic.

I only commented on this article to discuss with like minded folk the awful idea of an electric Ferrari. Every post of mine has been pulled over with a fine tooth comb so it can be criticised - you are not a very friendly bunch!

If you really are the sort of people who point out to others that a Diesel locomotive is actually exactly the same as an Electric one becasue they both have electric motors (I'm afraid you'll have to read the whole thread to understand that one Mr Gear) - I don't think I'll bother visiting again.

However, I wish you all well, because I'm a nice guy.

[Mr Gear]

McTaffity said:

If you read my original post, you would know that all I said was Hydrogen Fuel Cells is the technology manufacturers should be concentrating on instead of conventional electric - hardly off topic.

I only commented on this article to discuss with like minded folk the awful idea of an electric Ferrari. Every post of mine has been pulled over with a fine tooth comb so it can be criticised - you are not a very friendly bunch!

If you really are the sort of people who point out to others that a Diesel locomotive is actually exactly the same as an Electric one becasue they both have electric motors (I'm afraid you'll have to read the whole thread to understand that one Mr Gear) - I don't think I'll bother visiting again.

However, I wish you all well, because I'm a nice guy.

No offence, don't take it personally. It's just that we have had this conversation on here time and time again, hence the request for a sticky, so we don't need to go over it again. It has a tendency to derail threads. That is not your fault - apologies if you feel set upon.