RE: Ferrari Says 'No' To Electric Cars...

[martin84]

XitUp said:

Apology accepted.

A few points:
1. Go and read the previous threads on here about hydrogen. Read about production, transportation, storage and efficiency of it. Then have a think if it really is such a great idea.
2. Go have a look at how much the oil companies have been investing in renewable energy. They know the change will be coming some day.
3. Tax. Yes, in a few years, if people pull their heads out their arses and realise an electric car would work as their city car then the govt will find a way to tax them. Death and taxes are unavoidable. BUT, do you think they wont tax fossil fuel cars more?

Im sure back in the beginning when we started using oil/fossill fuels etc people mustve said it cant be done. Im sure people mustve thought in terms of production, transportation, storage etc that it'd be impossible. We did it once, we can do it again. Most of the great magnificent things humans have achieved have evolved in a very short space of time, it went from people saying it couldnt be done into it being there in front of us in next to no time. As ive said on this forum before there were people born at the time of the Wright Brothers who saw their children walk on the moon. No doubt people said that couldnt be done either. It wasnt that long ago all the 'experts' told us the mobile phone wouldnt take off. So anybody who ever comes out and says 'it wont work, you're an idiot' i refuse to believe them because the sorry fact is, they know fk all.

How can someone come on here today and say that nobody knows where the EV will go or what the future holds etc but then categorically say hydrogen isnt the answer? How can you be so reasonably minded or positive on one but totally negative on the other? Or to put it another way what the fk do you know? You cant tell me one is definately good and the other is definately a stupid bad idea. I dont see how anybody can say for definite one is good and the other is bad. Makes no sense. Total nonsense.

I agree on the tax side thats what im trying to say. People seem to be heralding EV's as the end of the oil companies and the end of the taxation problems. Today its marketed to us as cheaper, avoiding fuel duty and ved and getting 5k back from the Government etc but thats only temporary. So i agree on that matter.

[thinfourth2]

martin84 said:

thinfourth2 said:

Speak for yourself. For me a Leaf would be more practical in use then my daily driver.

How could it be 'more' practical? Does your current car have too long a range before it runs out? I could understand an argument of it being 'as practical' but how can it be 'more practical'?

How can it be more practical it not a hard concept to understand

The nearest charge point for an EV to my front door is 10.5 meters away its a 13amp 3 pin exterior plug i installed it myself. Its there just now. I'm looking out the window at it. 24hours a day 365 days a year it has power. Christmas day it has power, new years day it has power, sunday it has power.

The nearest 24 hour petrol station is 15 miles away. its not open 365 days a year.

if my daily diver has never been more then 28 miles from my house it would be a lot easier to refuel it 10.5 meters from my front door then 15 miles away.

And if i suddenly need to go somewhere long distance then i'll take one of the other cars

martin84 said:

thinfourth2 said:

Road pricing is coming and fossil fuelled cars will get hit just as hard if not harder

Road pricing will not hit UK streets as long as i am alive, or if it does i will leave this country. One step from communist Soviet Union. Doesnt belong in our nation. If its implimented worldwide i would rather be dead than see that awful awful day.

Bye bye, road pricing is coming as sure as my arse point downwards road pricing is coming

[XitUp]

martin84 said:

Road pricing will not hit UK streets as long as i am alive, or if it does i will leave this country. One step from communist Soviet Union. Doesnt belong in our nation. If its implimented worldwide i would rather be dead than see that awful awful day.

What a loss that would be.

martin84 said:

How can someone come on here today and say that nobody knows where the EV will go or what the future holds etc but then categorically say hydrogen isnt the answer? How can you be so reasonably minded or positive on one but totally negative on the other? Or to put it another way what the fk do you know? You cant tell me one is definately good and the other is definately a stupid bad idea. I dont see how anybody can say for definite one is good and the other is bad. Makes no sense. Total nonsense.

The laws of thermodynamics, mainly.

[martin84]

thinfourth2 said:

How can it be more practical it not a hard concept to understand

The nearest charge point for an EV to my front door is 10.5 meters away its a 13amp 3 pin exterior plug i installed it myself. Its there just now. I'm looking out the window at it. 24hours a day 365 days a year it has power. Christmas day it has power, new years day it has power, sunday it has power.

The nearest 24 hour petrol station is 15 miles away. its not open 365 days a year.

if my daily diver has never been more then 28 miles from my house it would be a lot easier to refuel it 10.5 meters from my front door then 15 miles away.

And if i suddenly need to go somewhere long distance then i'll take one of the other cars

Well you see thats why i couldnt fathom how it can be 'more practical' but the point is we dont all live 10 metres from a charge point

Yet another person in a minority using one insignificant case to 'disprove' a general point. 99.99999999% of people are right to say the EV isnt practical here today in 2011, but its ok for you. There. Happy now?

The funny thing is you admit you'd also need a proper car as well. Which proves my point perfectly. Save your £30,000 and just stick with the proper car. Or do you not count loss of money as being impractical or at least slightly annoying? I'd rather drive 15 miles to get some petrol, which would take my car many many many miles than pay £30k for something to charge up at home which wouldnt go far. I have a petrol station about 800 yards from my house. Ive never seen an EV charge point in my life. In fact theres only one petrol station i know of near me which sells LPG, the rest dont. Bit behind the times possibly.

And road pricing is a product of a left wing communist ideal that charging more money for something solves problems. It might move a problem. Or create new problems. But it wouldnt solve anything. The same as Ken Livingstone thinking paying to enter the centre of London means your car no longer pollutes or something. Any attempt to impliment it should be opposed, stamped out and destroyed. If it comes, i will jump off a roof. And thats a guarantee. And a bloody high roof it'll be as well. Spending years in a fake war with communists now to emulate them, deary me. Fortunately the Government we have now is intent on cuts cuts cuts and more cuts so hopefully there'll be no money to do anything so stupid.

[martin84]

XitUp said:

martin84 said:

Road pricing will not hit UK streets as long as i am alive, or if it does i will leave this country. One step from communist Soviet Union. Doesnt belong in our nation. If its implimented worldwide i would rather be dead than see that awful awful day.

What a loss that would be.

martin84 said:

How can someone come on here today and say that nobody knows where the EV will go or what the future holds etc but then categorically say hydrogen isnt the answer? How can you be so reasonably minded or positive on one but totally negative on the other? Or to put it another way what the fk do you know? You cant tell me one is definately good and the other is definately a stupid bad idea. I dont see how anybody can say for definite one is good and the other is bad. Makes no sense. Total nonsense.

The laws of thermodynamics, mainly.

Would now be a bad time to say i couldnt give a st what you think?

[XitUp]

martin84 said:

Yet another person in a minority using one insignificant case to 'disprove' a general point. 99.99999999% of people are right to say the EV isnt practical here today in 2011, but its ok for you. There. Happy now?

Pretty sure more than 0.00000001% of people have a drive or garage and access to more than one car.
And most people drive less than 60 miles a day.

martin84 said:

Would now be a bad time to say i couldnt give a st what you think?

Not really. It shows you're losing the argument though. But that was pretty clear from the start.

[martin84]

XitUp said:

Pretty sure more than 0.00000001% of people have a drive or garage and access to more than one car.
And most people drive less than 60 miles a day.

But how many people have £30,000 to spend on a car which demands the requirement of a second for the occasional long journey?

XitUp said:

Not really. It shows you're losing the argument though. But that was pretty clear from the start.

I cant lose an argument which is impossible to settle. In 50 years we can settle it, but not today. Have you heard what they say about arguing on the internet? Even if you win you're still a spastic. So congrats, you win

[thinfourth2]

martin84 said:

Well you see thats why i couldnt fathom how it can be 'more practical' but the point is we dont all live 10 metres from a charge point

Yet another person in a minority using one insignificant case to 'disprove' a general point. 99.99999999% of people are right to say the EV isnt practical here today in 2011, but its ok for you. There. Happy now?

Are you hard of reading?

What i said was

thinfourth2 said:

Speak for yourself. For me a Leaf would be more practical in use then my daily driver.

And trust me i'm not the only one who thinks that spending 15 seconds a day is more convent then a petrol station

martin84 said:

The funny thing is you admit you'd also need a proper car as well. Which proves my point perfectly. Save your £30,000 and just stick with the proper car. Or do you not count loss of money as being impractical or at least slightly annoying? I'd rather drive 15 miles to get some petrol, which would take my car many many many miles than pay £30k for something to charge up at home which wouldnt go far. I have a petrol station about 800 yards from my house. Ive never seen an EV charge point in my life. In fact theres only one petrol station i know of near me which sells LPG, the rest dont. Bit behind the times possibly.

I don't have a petrol station 800 yards from my house as living in the countryside is more pleasant. but you live 800 yards from a petrol station therefore everyone else must do too.

Also i don't need a proper car i have one already. Some people are rich enough to afford more then one car. Between myself and the wife we had 5 at last count, 6 if you include the Unimog.

martin84 said:

And road pricing is a product of a left wing communist ideal that charging more money for something solves problems. It might move a problem. Or create new problems. But it wouldnt solve anything. The same as Ken Livingstone thinking paying to enter the centre of London means your car no longer pollutes or something. Any attempt to impliment it should be opposed, stamped out and destroyed. If it comes, i will jump off a roof. And thats a guarantee. And a bloody high roof it'll be as well. Spending years in a fake war with communists now to emulate them, deary me. Fortunately the Government we have now is intent on cuts cuts cuts and more cuts so hopefully there'll be no money to do anything so stupid.

Can i watch?

[XitUp]

martin84 said:

But how many people have £30,000 to spend on a car which demands the requirement of a second for the occasional long journey?

£25,000 after the rebate.
Average cost of a new car in Dec 2010 was £26,530, so I'd say a lot of people could.

And prices will probably fall, they do on most consumer good.

martin84 said:

I cant lose an argument which is impossible to settle. In 50 years we can settle it, but not today. Have you heard what they say about arguing on the internet? Even if you win you're still a spastic. So congrats, you win

Yeah, that joke only really works if you're NOT also arguing on the internet.

Edited by XitUp on Sunday 21st August 18:35

[martin84]

thinfourth2 said:

I don't have a petrol station 800 yards from my house as living in the countryside is more pleasant. but you live 800 yards from a petrol station therefore everyone else must do too.

You live 10 metres from a charge point, therefore everyone else must do too.

[martin84]

XitUp said:

£25,000 after the rebate.
Average cost of a new car in Dec 2010 was £26,530, so I'd say a lot of people could.

And prices will probably fall, they do on most consumer good.

The rebate should be scrapped now. Why should rich people who can afford a gimmicky toy get £5k of our money back?

Ive never paid more than £1,800 for a car. I could pay more, but whats the point? I'd never pay £26,530 on a car, its a mugs game.

[XitUp]

martin84 said:

You live 10 metres from a charge point, therefore everyone else must do too.

I'd guess more people have a drive than live within five mins of a petrol station.

martin84 said:

The rebate should be scrapped now. Why should rich people who can afford a gimmicky toy get £5k of our money back?

Ive never paid more than £1,800 for a car. I could pay more, but whats the point? I'd never pay £26,530 on a car, its a mugs game.

I've also never bought a new car.
I'm glad some people do though or there would be no old cars for me to buy.

When I need a family car in a few years (rough estimate) I'll probably buy a Kia or something else cheap with a long warranty, so an electric car would do the trick if they were cheap enough by then. Probably won't be in my price range for a decade though.

[martin84]

I have a large enough fuel tank, a brain and fuel gauge to know when i need to put some in, even if i lived quite far from one. Until an electric car can be charged fully in 3 minutes and cover over 450 miles before it runs out (like my car can) i have no interest in them.

Purely on principle i'd rather pay extra for a proper car than show a disgusting display of conformity of buying an EV. You'll have to prise my keys to my proper car out of my cold dead hands

[thinfourth2]

martin84 said:

thinfourth2 said:

I don't have a petrol station 800 yards from my house as living in the countryside is more pleasant. but you live 800 yards from a petrol station therefore everyone else must do too.

You live 10 metres from a charge point, therefore everyone else must do too.

Its a UK 3 pin plug I do think you have seen one in your life

They aren't exactly fking rare

You can buy one for £23.99 from wicks

[thinfourth2]

martin84 said:

I have a large enough fuel tank, a brain and fuel gauge to know when i need to put some in, even if i lived quite far from one. Until an electric car can be charged fully in 3 minutes and cover over 450 miles before it runs out (like my car can) i have no interest in them.

Purely on principle i'd rather pay extra for a proper car than show a disgusting display of conformity of buying an EV. You'll have to prise my keys to my proper car out of my cold dead hands

I don't need to do 900 miles a day thankfully

As to the digesting display of conformity

In the last month i have seen

45898 petrol cars in resale grey including 5 aston martins also in resale grey

2 Nissian leafs one white and one black and i have never seen one in resale grey

[martin84]

I do around 30 miles a day but i know that if out of nowhere i had to do a long journey on short notice i wouldnt be stuck going 'ummm arrrr my Leaf will take another 10 hours to charge and i wont make it back with it' i can just jump in and go. Visiting that thoroughly modern invention the petrol station on route if required.

And if its a simple 3 pin then why do the likes of Nissan bang on about 'charge points' and 'fast charging point' and the Government had the whole 'charge point on every road' and all that? If its that simple?

[Dr_Gonzo]

The Black Flash said:

I'm far from a champion of EVs, but this kind of comment makes me laugh. I dare say that people said the same about the IC engine back in the day, and I know they did about the steam train before that. You can't possibly know with certainty.

Of course I can't. Like everything said about the future it's just an opinion. However, I should have expanded my comment (as it was written in a rush), as what I meant by 'electric cars' is the current incarnation of them i.e. battery powered, plug-in charge. IMO unless some form of near-instant charge is developed, battery powered EVs will never be a reality for the masses.

Edited by Dr_Gonzo on Sunday 21st August 19:25

[XitUp]

martin84 said:

I have a large enough fuel tank, a brain and fuel gauge to know when i need to put some in, even if i lived quite far from one. Until an electric car can be charged fully in 3 minutes and cover over 450 miles before it runs out (like my car can) i have no interest in them.

Purely on principle i'd rather pay extra for a proper car than show a disgusting display of conformity of buying an EV. You'll have to prise my keys to my proper car out of my cold dead hands

But filling your car up at home would be loads easier than going to the petrol station you live quite far away from, and much nicer, and much, much cheaper.

What car do you drive by the way? Do you just have access to one car?

[thinfourth2]

martin84 said:

I do around 30 miles a day but i know that if out of nowhere i had to do a long journey on short notice i wouldnt be stuck going 'ummm arrrr my Leaf will take another 10 hours to charge and i wont make it back with it' i can just jump in and go. Visiting that thoroughly modern invention the petrol station on route if required.

Well here is a stunning idea don't buy an electric car incase out of nowhere you have to go on a long journey.

Same as i have a Unimog incase we get snowed in

martin84 said:

And if its a simple 3 pin then why do the likes of Nissan bang on about 'charge points' and 'fast charging point' and the Government had the whole 'charge point on every road' and all that? If its that simple?

My nearest retail hell hole has 10 recharge points for electric cars

http://www.unionsquareaberdeen.com/Website/car.asp...

They are 3 pin sockets I know this as i use them. i plug my land rover into it while shopping and it keeps the engine nice and warm while giving me a good parking spot. If asked i say the land rover is electric why else would i be plugging it into the mains.

So it really is that simple a 3pin plug. You can buy one for £23.99 from wicks and you can plug your hedge trimmer into it. i installed mine to plug a jet wash/powersaw/compressor/drill, etc into.

A fast charger is a completely different beast.

Very few houses could have a fast charger as it needs a 3phase supply.


And if you live in a flat with no parking then you can't have an electric car, you can't have a 3.5ton digger or a Unimog or a big ride on lawnmower, or a dumper truck either so flats are st

[martin84]

XitUp said:

But filling your car up at home would be loads easier than going to the petrol station you live quite far away from, and much nicer, and much, much cheaper.

What car do you drive by the way? Do you just have access to one car?

Ive never found driving to a petrol station to be particularly difficult, even if i was far away from one. Its no more difficult than driving anywhere else is it? Nicer? Ive never been stood in a petrol station going 'god this is horrible' well until i look at the price. And as for cheaper? Well perhaps but i'd need to do so many miles to recoup the £25,000 outlay on the car and as said before one day the Government will get us if everybody had an EV, it wouldnt stay cheap for long.

I drive a T Reg Ford Mondeo 2.0 Zetec, so perhaps comments of 'conformity' earlier were misplaced. Less people will notice the Mondeo than the Leaf, granted. I know people will go 'T Reg Mondeo' slump their shoulders and think its a pile of st but its still in excellent nick and ive had no problems with it. I like it. Yes i only have the one car.

thinfourth2 said:

And if you live in a flat with no parking then you can't have an electric car, you can't have a 3.5ton digger or a Unimog or a big ride on lawnmower, or a dumper truck either so flats are st

But someone in a flat with no parking could have a normal car and park it in the next street or something if required, and 'charge' it up at a petrol station in just a few minutes. They couldnt have an electric car. So the EV still has many issues to overcome, millions live in flats we cant change an entire landscape and move everybody and build entire new towns of houses just because we cant be bothered to hunt for a more convenient alternative.

Edited by martin84 on Sunday 21st August 21:41