RE: Driven: Porsche Panamera Turbo S
Discussion
Not such a fan of Porsche, but I have no problem with the Panamera. I think it looks like a four door Porsche just like the 928 did. From some angles, I can't tell a Boxster from a 911, but these are instantly identifiable from any angle. Not that everyone agrees that is a good thing for the Panamera, haha.
I didn't have too many opinions about the Panamera until PistonHeads did a Sunday Service at Silverstone Porsche Centre last year. Went out in a passenger ride in one and was amazed at what an able car it was and the performance was amazing considering it's size.
I'd have one at the drop of a hat.
I'd have one at the drop of a hat.
mikEsprit said:
Not such a fan of Porsche, but I have no problem with the Panamera. I think it looks like a four door Porsche just like the 928 did. From some angles, I can't tell a Boxster from a 911, but these are instantly identifiable from any angle. Not that everyone agrees that is a good thing for the Panamera, haha.
You mean the 2 door 928? 
Zod said:
I'm 6'2" and can easily get in the back of a Rapide. It's an acceptable compromise, but frankly the cars are not comparable. the Panamera competes first of all withe Cayenne and then with Mercedes and BMWs, not the Aston Martin.
There is a knack to getting in and out of the back of a Rapide and if you are female and in a skirt forget it 
On the face of it they don't compare BUT the Panamera Turbo S does compete with the Rapide!
craigjm said:
There is a knack to getting in and out of the back of a Rapide and if you are female and in a skirt forget it
On the face of it they don't compare BUT the Panamera Turbo S does compete with the Rapide!
I don't think it does. If you want performance figures, you buy the Panamera (or wait a bit, save a lot of money and buy an M5). If you want beauty with some (but less) practicality and a wonderful sound, you buy the Rapide On the face of it they don't compare BUT the Panamera Turbo S does compete with the Rapide!
The Panamera could be an only car. It's difficult to see the Rapide in that role.
Each to his own taste, but it's not an inherently ugly car. I don't like the Quattoporte, And I found that lumbering to drive.
4S looks great on my driveway and is awesome to drive.
I don't understand the comments about rear legroom. There's absolutely loads behind my 6ft driver position.
Great family car!
4S looks great on my driveway and is awesome to drive.
I don't understand the comments about rear legroom. There's absolutely loads behind my 6ft driver position.
Great family car!
Zod said:
I don't think it does. If you want performance figures, you buy the Panamera (or wait a bit, save a lot of money and buy an M5). If you want beauty with some (but less) practicality and a wonderful sound, you buy the Rapide
The Panamera could be an only car. It's difficult to see the Rapide in that role.
I know someone who has a Rapide as the families only car and they have two kids. Don't get me wrong I love the Rapide and was in the AM dealer looking at one a couple of weeks ago but space and practicality wise it isn't a patch on the Panamara IMO. I wouldn't buy a Panamara though personally as I think the look of the rear quarter is challenging and as I already have a Porsche the interior is too similar. Now a Rapide in Hardly Green with ivory leather, piano black wood and green stitching? yes I could go for that but for one thing, it would have to be a daily driver and a V12 just isn't going to happen The Panamera could be an only car. It's difficult to see the Rapide in that role.
On the comparison of Rapide vs Panamera , I think the market has spoken.
The Rapide is simply too challenging for rear passengers. The Panamera is much more usable and more comfortable.
The Rapide is also something of a sales flop. Aston originally planned to sell 2000 Rapides a year - production was stopped altogether earlier in the year because of a build up of unsold cars, and they have now reduced the target from 2000 a year to 1200. Aston are also switching manufacture back the UK because the sales are too low to sustain the Austrian Steyr plant .
In contrast, it seems that Porsche have sold 25000+ Panameras in a year or so.
The Rapide is desirable, pretty, but pointless. Most owners would run a DBS and a Range Rover. The Panamera is much more suitable for the purpose - a 4 seater car with supercar peformance.
This is why the Panamera is a success and the Rapide is not.
This is also why whining about the styling of the Panamera is largely misguided, coming from people who would never buy one. The Panamera is shaped the way it is for a reason - to provide proper rear room. If the Aston Rapide had not sacrificed practicality for appearance and was designed to have more room in the back, it would probably end up looking like a Panamera !
The Rapide is simply too challenging for rear passengers. The Panamera is much more usable and more comfortable.
The Rapide is also something of a sales flop. Aston originally planned to sell 2000 Rapides a year - production was stopped altogether earlier in the year because of a build up of unsold cars, and they have now reduced the target from 2000 a year to 1200. Aston are also switching manufacture back the UK because the sales are too low to sustain the Austrian Steyr plant .
In contrast, it seems that Porsche have sold 25000+ Panameras in a year or so.
The Rapide is desirable, pretty, but pointless. Most owners would run a DBS and a Range Rover. The Panamera is much more suitable for the purpose - a 4 seater car with supercar peformance.
This is why the Panamera is a success and the Rapide is not.
This is also why whining about the styling of the Panamera is largely misguided, coming from people who would never buy one. The Panamera is shaped the way it is for a reason - to provide proper rear room. If the Aston Rapide had not sacrificed practicality for appearance and was designed to have more room in the back, it would probably end up looking like a Panamera !
Zod said:
The above post might ring true if Aston Martin had ever intended to compete with a car most examples of which have been sold for less than half its price. The real competition is the 612.
I think the most logical explanation is that Aston launched a car that answered a question no-one was asking..There are simply not enough people looking for a supercar that is also capable of carrying children or small adults for shortish distances. Such buyers would have a second car for the haulage duties, so negating the need for the Rapide in the first place.
Porsche knew this. That is why the Panamera looks the way it does - so that it actually works for a specific, identified market and is designed accordingly.
Aston ( being cash strapped ) could only make do with the existing DB9 architecture so they attempted to go for the same market. And, evidently, failed.
It is a shame - I am an Aston fan and I prefer British built cars - but I think the Rapide is a massive waste of effort on their part.
I'm almost inclined to agree. It just doesn't work for me, because it can only take two in the back (the Panamera can't take three either) and its luggage space is too small. It's a beautful thing though and deserves to sell, but in lower numbers than Aston planned for.
Then again, the Panamera may be selling, but you mostly see S models, not Turbos. It's a car that I should want, but I don't. I just can't take the looks and I think it's overpriced.
Then again, the Panamera may be selling, but you mostly see S models, not Turbos. It's a car that I should want, but I don't. I just can't take the looks and I think it's overpriced.
The reason the Aston sells far less than the Panamara is simply down to the fact that it is only available as a V12 and 99% of Panamaras sold are not Turbo S models with the diesel and hybrid making up the majority in the UK. I am sure if they stuck the Jaguar 3.0 diesel from the XJ under the bonnet of the Aston it would sell in spades.
toppstuff said:
I think the most logical explanation is that Aston launched a car that answered a question no-one was asking..
There are simply not enough people looking for a supercar that is also capable of carrying children or small adults for shortish distances. Such buyers would have a second car for the haulage duties, so negating the need for the Rapide in the first place.
Porsche knew this. That is why the Panamera looks the way it does - so that it actually works for a specific, identified market and is designed accordingly.
Aston ( being cash strapped ) could only make do with the existing DB9 architecture so they attempted to go for the same market. And, evidently, failed.
It is a shame - I am an Aston fan and I prefer British built cars - but I think the Rapide is a massive waste of effort on their part.
Well summarized, and it may surprise, but on the strength of my dramatically underappreciated (by the market) 2004 XJR, I was for a time a newly-minted rabid British car fan as well; and even bought the sadly underdeveloped but still in all, underappreciated Sportwagon (which, with the right wheels on it now, still gets astonished looks and comments like "when did that come out!"). We were a statistically improbable 2 Jag family, then, 3 things happened: (1) Jaguar badly botched a run of bad luck we had with the latter, superficial things but with big impacts (wife stranded three times within a short period): no replies to my increasingly pointed request for some factory recognition, at risk of losing a dedicated fan, of a non standard problem -- ironically Porsche recently addressed an odd issue with my 4S in a extraordinary way: case closed; the miracle of a little company consciousness, first, and then a flick of savvy PR!); (2) As Jaguar reconstituted the XJ, I was one of the 23 buyers left who would have strongly favored a touch of the old in the new body design (arguably segment leading interior notwithstanding), and finally, simultaneously, (3) Porsche, a company who did not build a car I wanted (sedan) came out of left field and suddenly did, blowing away in my mind every boring look alike (or trying too hard, my take on the MBs) sedan out there (sorry if I offend: we are only able to reference our selves after all): I have not looked back for a nanosecond and can’t IMAGINE enjoying any other 2010 model nearly as much!There are simply not enough people looking for a supercar that is also capable of carrying children or small adults for shortish distances. Such buyers would have a second car for the haulage duties, so negating the need for the Rapide in the first place.
Porsche knew this. That is why the Panamera looks the way it does - so that it actually works for a specific, identified market and is designed accordingly.
Aston ( being cash strapped ) could only make do with the existing DB9 architecture so they attempted to go for the same market. And, evidently, failed.
It is a shame - I am an Aston fan and I prefer British built cars - but I think the Rapide is a massive waste of effort on their part.
Edited by hgeorge on Tuesday 13th September 16:19
Edited by hgeorge on Tuesday 13th September 17:07
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