Audi vs BMW And Keep It Clean Guys
Discussion
Okay i know this is going to be a few red rags to a few bulls here but i would like to know what the PH community feels about the age old debate of Audi vs BMW?
My personal experience is my Father first getting an audi RS4 2.7 biturbo Avant. He had owned quattro's before i was born but was into subaru's for the first 10 years of my life and then the RS4 came along. Being a child and having known only the whistle of a turbo spooling and the blow of its waste gate my brother and i greatly approved. Then he graduated onto the new model RS4 Avant with the 4.2 V8 which had a sport button which made it louder and the V8 noise made my brother and i once again greatly approve. Now he has an RS5 coupe which in my opinion is one of the best real wold cars out there. The ride can be altered to cope with british potholes and speed bumps and it will go like a stabbed rat if asked to. Add this to its broad shouldered appearance and i hope you would agree that it is an excellent all round car.
I have followed in my fathers footsteps to an extent with an audi tt 225 (being 20 years old the insurance on anything more is laughable for the moment) And i do have a soft spot for Audi (and TVR for which i blame my uncle).
All of this has lead me to this question of which is actually better?
I have a slightly biased view as i have never experienced a drive in a BMW so i would greatly appreciate the opinions of the PH community as to which you feel is the better example of a real world car i.e. one you can use everyday and it doesnt have to have a V8, any model or engine you feel is the best please do share what and why. Also manual vs auto vs DSG etc. Personally i am fully behind the manual argument although i will concede that it depends what you use your car for e.g. back road fun then manual vs motorway cruise auto.
Anyway have fun
My personal experience is my Father first getting an audi RS4 2.7 biturbo Avant. He had owned quattro's before i was born but was into subaru's for the first 10 years of my life and then the RS4 came along. Being a child and having known only the whistle of a turbo spooling and the blow of its waste gate my brother and i greatly approved. Then he graduated onto the new model RS4 Avant with the 4.2 V8 which had a sport button which made it louder and the V8 noise made my brother and i once again greatly approve. Now he has an RS5 coupe which in my opinion is one of the best real wold cars out there. The ride can be altered to cope with british potholes and speed bumps and it will go like a stabbed rat if asked to. Add this to its broad shouldered appearance and i hope you would agree that it is an excellent all round car.
I have followed in my fathers footsteps to an extent with an audi tt 225 (being 20 years old the insurance on anything more is laughable for the moment) And i do have a soft spot for Audi (and TVR for which i blame my uncle).
All of this has lead me to this question of which is actually better?
I have a slightly biased view as i have never experienced a drive in a BMW so i would greatly appreciate the opinions of the PH community as to which you feel is the better example of a real world car i.e. one you can use everyday and it doesnt have to have a V8, any model or engine you feel is the best please do share what and why. Also manual vs auto vs DSG etc. Personally i am fully behind the manual argument although i will concede that it depends what you use your car for e.g. back road fun then manual vs motorway cruise auto.
Anyway have fun
Well from my perspective it's a simple question of how many genuine "driver's cars" (hateful term but you know what I mean) each brand has made. Apart from a few gems like the R8 and most recent RS4 most Audis are fairly uninspiring things to drive, inert and without any feel. With BMW it's more the opposite where apart from a few duffers most of their stuff (historically at least) is pleasant to drive - just simple stuff like steering with a bit of feel, nice weighting to controls etc etc.
Benmac said:
Well from my perspective it's a simple question of how many genuine "driver's cars" (hateful term but you know what I mean) each brand has made. Apart from a few gems like the R8 and most recent RS4 most Audis are fairly uninspiring things to drive, inert and without any feel. With BMW it's more the opposite where apart from a few duffers most of their stuff (historically at least) is pleasant to drive - just simple stuff like steering with a bit of feel, nice weighting to controls etc etc.
A fair point, what are BMW's duffers?Both used to be great, and now turn out dull euroboxes.
bmw imo have the edge in being slightly less dull.
there is a big difference between the 99% of their production and their higher end cars though.
the prestige audi cars as stated previously are a bit boring to drive though do look quite good, whilst the prestige bmw versions are a bit more inspiring. thus bmw have the edge, although the latest visual revamps from bmw suck big time. Who in their right mind would actually buy an 09+ 5 series? they've been hit by the ugly stick hard!
bmw imo have the edge in being slightly less dull.
there is a big difference between the 99% of their production and their higher end cars though.
the prestige audi cars as stated previously are a bit boring to drive though do look quite good, whilst the prestige bmw versions are a bit more inspiring. thus bmw have the edge, although the latest visual revamps from bmw suck big time. Who in their right mind would actually buy an 09+ 5 series? they've been hit by the ugly stick hard!
It depends on the specific car rather than the brand as a whole.
The following is my personal opinion – others may vary.
2 seat sportscar, then Z4 is better than the TT. Although the TT Quatro may have an edge for being 4wd if that's your thing.
The 1 series cabrio is nicer than the A3 cabrio in looks.
The Q5 is better than the X3.
The 3 series cabrio has a hard top and small boot, the A4 cab has a soft top and big boot (with the roof down). Get the one you need.
Generally speaking BMWs are RWD, Audi are FWD. Choose the one you like best. There are pros and cons on both styles.
The following is my personal opinion – others may vary.
2 seat sportscar, then Z4 is better than the TT. Although the TT Quatro may have an edge for being 4wd if that's your thing.
The 1 series cabrio is nicer than the A3 cabrio in looks.
The Q5 is better than the X3.
The 3 series cabrio has a hard top and small boot, the A4 cab has a soft top and big boot (with the roof down). Get the one you need.
Generally speaking BMWs are RWD, Audi are FWD. Choose the one you like best. There are pros and cons on both styles.
This is mine:
I originally planned to replace this with a biturbo S4 once insurance becomes, not so much attainable, but possible.
And I think BMWs are, ultimately, for what I'm interested in, better cars.
The level of driver focus is completely different, in that there actually is some. The B7 RS4 is an excellent car, but it will never stand a chance in comparison against even an older E46 M3 - the latter is just a shining example of the kind of focussed, communicative drive that is missing so much these days. Even on a duller playing field, BMW's diesels remain the most impressive (read: obviously voodoo-using) achievements around. The company knocks out engines and chassis like no other, and then makes them work properly for an enthusiastic driver, and then remains successful despite a fast-dwindling demand for such things. For that I have huge respect for them.
I've driven a mildly breathed-on E92 M3 for ten hard laps, and the thing was a revelation. You just don't treat it like a road car, it grips and behaves like a racer, and sounds like one too. A staggering performance that no 4WD turbo-reliant car is going to be able to match for many years to come. Compared to what else I'd driven that day, the M3 simply shouldn't have been able to go as fast as it did, you could have told me it weighed 1200kg and it would seem quite reasonable. A truly massive achievement.
I love Audis of many periods for their understated looks, devotion to cabin quality and good image, and the ability to have a bit of fun at the same time. And my respect for their phenomenal Le Mans campaign is unbounded. And I still might buy an S4 rather than a 540i. But if you were to ask me which road cars had to disappear off the face of the earth, I think we might have to lose Audi.
I do love 'em. But I can't help feeling BMW are just better.
I originally planned to replace this with a biturbo S4 once insurance becomes, not so much attainable, but possible.
And I think BMWs are, ultimately, for what I'm interested in, better cars.
The level of driver focus is completely different, in that there actually is some. The B7 RS4 is an excellent car, but it will never stand a chance in comparison against even an older E46 M3 - the latter is just a shining example of the kind of focussed, communicative drive that is missing so much these days. Even on a duller playing field, BMW's diesels remain the most impressive (read: obviously voodoo-using) achievements around. The company knocks out engines and chassis like no other, and then makes them work properly for an enthusiastic driver, and then remains successful despite a fast-dwindling demand for such things. For that I have huge respect for them.
I've driven a mildly breathed-on E92 M3 for ten hard laps, and the thing was a revelation. You just don't treat it like a road car, it grips and behaves like a racer, and sounds like one too. A staggering performance that no 4WD turbo-reliant car is going to be able to match for many years to come. Compared to what else I'd driven that day, the M3 simply shouldn't have been able to go as fast as it did, you could have told me it weighed 1200kg and it would seem quite reasonable. A truly massive achievement.
I love Audis of many periods for their understated looks, devotion to cabin quality and good image, and the ability to have a bit of fun at the same time. And my respect for their phenomenal Le Mans campaign is unbounded. And I still might buy an S4 rather than a 540i. But if you were to ask me which road cars had to disappear off the face of the earth, I think we might have to lose Audi.
I do love 'em. But I can't help feeling BMW are just better.
bmw535i said:
What do you mean by one of the best "real world" cars out there?
I mean not just cars that would be great on a track day alone. I mean cars that you could use everyday in the real world i.e. do the food shopping with or trek down to goodwood for the FOS without being embarrassed when it comes to parking next to a porsche/ bentley. Cars that are the best to live with everyday.Having experienced both
Personally:
Looks - Audi's edge this for me 1-0
Interior - Again audis win for me 2-0
Engine selection - Tough call, Audi have great V8's but BMW's ED disels are class leading by miles. A draw, so 3-1
Price - Even Stevens - 4-2
Running costs - Engine choice (therefore MPG aside) by Audi was cheaper to run - 5-2
So for a 'normal' person I.E non PH, Audi for me are the pick of the bunch.
But... and this one to me is worth more than all of the above put together.
Driving experience - BMW by a country mile
Personally:
Looks - Audi's edge this for me 1-0
Interior - Again audis win for me 2-0
Engine selection - Tough call, Audi have great V8's but BMW's ED disels are class leading by miles. A draw, so 3-1
Price - Even Stevens - 4-2
Running costs - Engine choice (therefore MPG aside) by Audi was cheaper to run - 5-2
So for a 'normal' person I.E non PH, Audi for me are the pick of the bunch.
But... and this one to me is worth more than all of the above put together.
Driving experience - BMW by a country mile
NotKenBlock said:
Having experienced both
Personally:
Looks - Audi's edge this for me 1-0
Interior - Again audis win for me 2-0
Engine selection - Tough call, Audi have great V8's but BMW's ED disels are class leading by miles. A draw, so 3-1
Price - Even Stevens - 4-2
Running costs - Engine choice (therefore MPG aside) by Audi was cheaper to run - 5-2
So for a 'normal' person I.E non PH, Audi for me are the pick of the bunch.
But... and this one to me is worth more than all of the above put together.
Driving experience - BMW by a country mile
Probably more concise than what I said Personally:
Looks - Audi's edge this for me 1-0
Interior - Again audis win for me 2-0
Engine selection - Tough call, Audi have great V8's but BMW's ED disels are class leading by miles. A draw, so 3-1
Price - Even Stevens - 4-2
Running costs - Engine choice (therefore MPG aside) by Audi was cheaper to run - 5-2
So for a 'normal' person I.E non PH, Audi for me are the pick of the bunch.
But... and this one to me is worth more than all of the above put together.
Driving experience - BMW by a country mile
The driven wheels were not a consideration in the decision at all.ewenm said:
Define "better" and you'll find your answer. Unfortunately "better" means different things to different people, hence the arguments heated discussions.
Precisely. Every time you buy a car, you use your own subjective criteria, so it's impossible to say which is "best". Only when you specify criteria that is based on facts and not opinions will you be able to get a proper answer.(It's BMW)
rudecherub said:
At a glance you can really see the difference in the style of tyres.
See how the tyres on the left compact the snow under them but the tyres on the right cut through the snow so the rubber is in contact with the ground underneath.
I'm not sure why it's in the Audi vs BMW thread though.
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