Audi vs BMW And Keep It Clean Guys

[KennyGT]

goldblum said:

Y282 said:

goldblum said:

KennyGT said:

BMW everytime.

Just look at all the M cars. The Audi RS versions just dont (don't) have the same passion. True I would have an R8 everyday of the week.

I think Audis are a bit overpriced to be honest. I remember driving a boxfresh A6 at work and thought it was a crock of st,(.)(F) fastforward to driving a pretty basic 3 series tourer and the BM was in a different league.

It all comes down to what you like personally. I just think their (there) are more desirable Beamers (Beemers) than Audis.

That's right

I drive an Audi.

Well done, you.

Yes,I know.

By the way it's Yes, I know, not Yes,I know.

I drive a Mini.

[SWoll]

Y282 said:

ok, serious question: as a non-audi person and not having that much knowledge about their product specs, can anyone map the equivalent audi models onto the m3s in e30, e36, e46 and onwards please?

genuine question, no pisstaking.

E30 M3 - Audi Quattro
E36 M3 - Audi Coupe S2/Audi S4
E46 M3 - Audi S4/RS4
E90 M3 - Audi RS4/RS5

Thats my best guess, I'm sure someone else on here will confirm when they stop bickering like a bunch of bloody kids...

[goldblum]

The everyday models would have to be BMW for me and the performance from Audi.I wouldn't buy FWD again unless I really had no choice or it was a Focus RS.

I've had 2 M3's (E46) and although well packaged and nippy the prevailing weather conditions in this part of the UK (NW) mean a powerful RWD car is pointless,

tedious and often dangerous.I'd have an RS6 over an M5 anyday.If I lived in Spain or somewhere where the weather was more clement it would be an E92 M3.

*SHRUGS*

Edited by goldblum on Friday 16th September 11:53

[Patrick Bateman]

Dangerous is a bit much.

[Fox-]

swiftwill said:

Of course the RS4 was a threat because if it was seen as the better car why would people settle for less in their minds? this forced BMW's hand to release the E90. With the more modern technology and V8 engine the RS4 was seen as a league above the E46 and BMW had nothing to compete with it so it had to release the new model didn't it?

Why would they release a new model purely to compete with a discontinued model? The end of production of the RS4 was announced before the E90 M3 hit showrooms. The RS4 could be the best car in the universe but given Audi were ceasing production of it you couldnt buy a new one so it was no threat to the E90 M3.

The E90 M3 was introduced because the E46 had been replaced by the E90 in early 2005. Thats a full year before the RS4 even appeared anyway!

[Chrisw666]

goldblum said:

I've had 2 M3's (E46) and although well packaged and nippy the prevailing weather conditions in this part of the UK (NW) mean a powerful RWD car is pointless, tedious and often dangerous.

Which part of the UK do you live in where snow is that much of a problem for more than a handful of weeks a year?

[RobM77]

Chrisw666 said:

goldblum said:

I've had 2 M3's (E46) and although well packaged and nippy the prevailing weather conditions in this part of the UK (NW) mean a powerful RWD car is pointless, tedious and often dangerous.

Which part of the UK do you live in where snow is that much of a problem for more than a handful of weeks a year?

I'm not sure I understand that statement either to be honest. I've driven both the E46 and E92 M3s and don't think the wet poses any problem at all really, especially with their remarkably effective limited slip diffs. Driving the E46 in the wet I remember being traction limited coming off a 2nd gear roundabout (which is normal for even a 330ci, except the M3's LSD gives more traction), but once up to 3rd I think it would take full throttle. I've not tried either car in the snow mind you, but as Chris says, surely that's just a few weeks a year?

[D1ngd0ng]

Just to add my 2 pennies worth late in the day. Very limited driving experience of both cars, tested an A4 and E90 (SE and ED) recently (potential company motor, but every A4TDI and 320D you see on the road nowadays seems to be a company car anyway)

Tried the Audi first which came equipped with loads of features as standard but wasn't as fun a drive as my current motor (mk4 Golf GTI which I love btw, will be a real wrench to part with)

Then tried out the E90ed (my first RWD car) and was sold completely on it after the first drive, the RWD and active power steering provide the most amazing driving experience (for me anyway)

So E90 ordered just in time for them to discontinue the range. Hopefully in 4 years time I'll have got this out of my system and will plump for a car laden with features instead (as the BMW price list for extras is horrendous)

[goldblum]

RobM77 said:

Chrisw666 said:

goldblum said:

I've had 2 M3's (E46) and although well packaged and nippy the prevailing weather conditions in this part of the UK (NW) mean a powerful RWD car is pointless, tedious and often dangerous.

Which part of the UK do you live in where snow is that much of a problem for more than a handful of weeks a year?

I'm not sure I understand that statement either to be honest. I've driven both the E46 and E92 M3s and don't think the wet poses any problem at all really, especially with their remarkably effective limited slip diffs. Driving the E46 in the wet I remember being traction limited coming off a 2nd gear roundabout (which is normal for even a 330ci, except the M3's LSD gives more traction), but once up to 3rd I think it would take full throttle. I've not tried either car in the snow mind you, but as Chris says, surely that's just a few weeks a year?

I commute to parts of the Peak District in my job and have done for a while.In the dry the M3 is perfect,in the wet/damp/rain/snow It causes palpitations.An Audi

RS storms across the same roads an M3 would feel skittish on in the same weather.Which is 70% of the time,especially this summer.

[RobM77]

I too test drove the RS4 ('07 model) and came to a similar conclusion. Whilst it was a capable and an extremely well engineered car, I found it rather boring. I think I'd have got the same enjoyment out of a 2.0TDi, and I don't mean that as a criticism of the RS4, moreso a praising on the lower models. I'd still recommend the RS4 to a friend, but it wasn't my thing really. In my book (and this is purely my opinion), a performance model should offer more than just greater performance - it should also interest and entertain the driver. The E92 M3 on the other hand I found to be one of the best rounded cars I've ever driven, and a substantial and worthy distinction from lesser models. I think it's purely just a matter of taste to be honest though, and I'm glad that Audi and BMW are following their own niches rather than treading on each other's toes. The same goes for Mercedes AMG, who have their own niche too.

[mercfunder]

goldblum said:

I commute to parts of the Peak District in my job and have done for a while.In the dry the M3 is perfect,in the wet/damp/rain/snow It causes palpitations.An Audi

RS storms across the same roads an M3 would feel skittish on in the same weather.Which is 70% of the time,especially this summer.

How do you travel, as the crow flies?
An M3 can handle any road in the Peak district in any weather (excluding deep snow), no problem.

[Nors]

RobM77 said:

I found it rather boring. I think I'd have got the same enjoyment out of a 2.0TDi,

I know each to their own and all that, but that's got to be one of the most strange things I've ever heard anyone say about a B7 RS4, boring and no more enjoyment than a 2.0Tdi!!!! You been taking too much whacky backy?

[RobM77]

Nors said:

RobM77 said:

I found it rather boring. I think I'd have got the same enjoyment out of a 2.0TDi,

I know each to their own and all that, but that's got to be one of the most strange things I've ever heard anyone say about a B7 RS4, boring and no more enjoyment than a 2.0Tdi!!!! You been taking too much whacky backy?

I did immediately follow that with saying that was a compliment about the A4 in general, it was just my opinion, and I'd happily recommend one However, yes, I did find it boring. Straight line pace doesn't really interest me greatly (unless it's really quick); I was mainly after an interactive and interesting drive, which one normally gets from a faster model in the range (M3, CTR, C62 AMG etc). The RS4 was a beautifully engineered car, with a smooth and responsive throttle and brake action and decent steering. The handling was tidy (if rather nose heavy), and the interior very well appointed. I'd happily have one as a daily driver if I had a 911 GT3 in the garage or similar, I just found it rather dull. Every single feature that I liked would be present on a lesser model, so I didn't see the point in spending the extra money on it. One thing I should say is that I posted my thoughts on here and some guys who know about RS4s both agreed that perhaps the engine on the one I drove may have been a bit sick (apparently they do that after a while and need attention? It's not something I know much about I'm afraid).

[Froomee]

BMW.

Simply because they make more models that I would want to own and that i see as aspirational i.e. Recent M3's (various models), Z4M, Z3M Coupe, E30 M3, outgoing M5(especially the avant), Batmobile, 635CSI,Z1, etc,etc

For Audi its the R8, RS4(especially the avant), RS6,RS2 and Quattro maybe a TTRS(or not) and not much else and to be fair most of them are modern.

I'm sure someone will come along and write up a whole list of Audi's that they adore but this is my two pence.

All of the vanilla cars are little or no better than rivals from other manufacturers and can join the long list of bland, boring, uninspirational cars i hope i am never forced to own.

[RobM77]

Froomee said:

All of the vanilla cars are little or no better than rivals from other manufacturers and can join the long list of bland, boring, uninspirational cars i hope i am never forced to own.

Firstly, have you actually driven, for example, an E46 M3 and then an E46 330ci back to back? The comment in the back of Evo for both cars sums it up well. Just to check, I handed the keys of my 330ci to a fellow PHer who had an E46 M3 and he said the two felt surprisingly similar. The M3 is obviously a better drive as it has more power, a lovely rear LSD and differently tuned suspension, but the overall feel is extremely similar. It's certainly far closer than comparing, for example, a Civic with a Civic Type R; or an Exige S with an Elise S.

Secondly, in terms of engineering differences, the "vanilla" cars as you put it are far more different from their rivals than they are from the M3. The 330ci and M3 differ in suspension, rear diff and power output, and the feel of the cars is even closer than that would suggest; whereas the 330ci and the A4, Mondeo, Vectra, 407 etc have completely different layouts; a longitudinal straight six driving the rear wheels vs a transverse 4 or V6 driving the front wheels. You simply can't get more different than that.

[Froomee]

RobM77 said:

Froomee said:

All of the vanilla cars are little or no better than rivals from other manufacturers and can join the long list of bland, boring, uninspirational cars i hope i am never forced to own.

Firstly, have you actually driven, for example, an E46 M3 and then an E46 330ci back to back? The comment in the back of Evo for both cars sums it up well. Just to check, I handed the keys of my 330ci to a fellow PHer who had an E46 M3 and he said the two felt surprisingly similar. The M3 is obviously a better drive as it has more power, a lovely rear LSD and differently tuned suspension, but the overall feel is extremely similar. It's certainly far closer than comparing, for example, a Civic with a Civic Type R; or an Exige S with an Elise S.

Secondly, in terms of engineering differences, the "vanilla" cars as you put it are far more different from their rivals than they are from the M3. The 330ci and M3 differ in suspension, rear diff and power output, and the feel of the cars is even closer than that would suggest; whereas the 330ci and the A4, Mondeo, Vectra, 407 etc have completely different layouts; a longitudinal straight six driving the rear wheels vs a transverse 4 or V6 driving the front wheels. You simply can't get more different than that.

Firstly, Yes i have driven a 330ci, an M3 E46, E92 and recently had an 11 plate 320d as a coutesy car. I have also driven an RS4 and been passenger in an R8 just for reference.

Secondly i am well aware of the differences but the differences you state are "much of muchness" as the overall package falls short in areas i deem to be important. I do not intend to own a vanilla Ford/auxhall/BMW/Mercedes/Audi. I do not dislike the 330 it's just not fast enough for my liking and too subtle for me.

I do not wish to get into a long debate about layouts, weight distribution,power outputs,price and all the usual pH discussion as the topic meerly states BMW or Audi.

For me its simple, I generally aspire to own the top end models as do most. Considering an E46 M3 is affordable (relatively speaking) then i see no reason to own a 330 the same applies to some of the other cars listed. BMW have more of these cars IMO hence i prefer BMW.

I intend to buy a Z4MC next year so i am firmly in the BMW camp.

[RobM77]

Froomee said:

RobM77 said:

Froomee said:

All of the vanilla cars are little or no better than rivals from other manufacturers and can join the long list of bland, boring, uninspirational cars i hope i am never forced to own.

Firstly, have you actually driven, for example, an E46 M3 and then an E46 330ci back to back? The comment in the back of Evo for both cars sums it up well. Just to check, I handed the keys of my 330ci to a fellow PHer who had an E46 M3 and he said the two felt surprisingly similar. The M3 is obviously a better drive as it has more power, a lovely rear LSD and differently tuned suspension, but the overall feel is extremely similar. It's certainly far closer than comparing, for example, a Civic with a Civic Type R; or an Exige S with an Elise S.

Secondly, in terms of engineering differences, the "vanilla" cars as you put it are far more different from their rivals than they are from the M3. The 330ci and M3 differ in suspension, rear diff and power output, and the feel of the cars is even closer than that would suggest; whereas the 330ci and the A4, Mondeo, Vectra, 407 etc have completely different layouts; a longitudinal straight six driving the rear wheels vs a transverse 4 or V6 driving the front wheels. You simply can't get more different than that.

Firstly, Yes i have driven a 330ci, an M3 E46, E92 and recently had an 11 plate 320d as a coutesy car. I have also driven an RS4 and been passenger in an R8 just for reference.

Secondly i am well aware of the differences but the differences you state are "much of muchness" as the overall package falls short in areas i deem to be important. I do not intend to own a vanilla Ford/auxhall/BMW/Mercedes/Audi. I do not dislike the 330 it's just not fast enough for my liking and too subtle for me.

I do not wish to get into a long debate about layouts, weight distribution,power outputs,price and all the usual pH discussion as the topic meerly states BMW or Audi.

For me its simple, I generally aspire to own the top end models as do most. Considering an E46 M3 is affordable (relatively speaking) then i see no reason to own a 330 the same applies to some of the other cars listed. BMW have more of these cars IMO hence i prefer BMW.

I intend to buy a Z4MC next year so i am firmly in the BMW camp.

Fair enough. I just wanted to check. As far as I'm concerned one FE/RWD car is much the same as another, provided they have similar suspension and weigh roughly the same (M3, 330ci, C Class, Z4M, 330d, 120d, Lexus IS200, Mustang etc..); but they are each and all totally different to a FE/FWD car (Mondeo, Vectra, Accord etc..), especially with the engines in different orientations. In my eyes that's the biggest difference you can get, and mere adjustments in diff locking, ride height and engine power are smaller and more subtle details.

Each to their own though It's interesting how we all often drive the same cars and have totally different impressions.

ETA: this is what's interesting about BMW vs Audi actually. The two cars in my mind are totally different on one hand (how they drive), but in terms of on paper specs and what they're designed to do, are extremely similar.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 16th September 17:03

[Contigo]

As an everday car the RS series are better on the road as they have the excellent Quattro AWD system and from a safety point of view it's excellent. Plus in the recent bad winters I've managed to get everywhere where an M series BMW simply would have floundered like a Penguin on an ice block.

On the track and as a track toy I'd take the M3 CSL anyday as it's got that go kart feel and simply awesome handling and driving ability that none of the RS cars could have and would be left understeering on most of the corners that the CSL would eat up.

In terms of cabin quality and interior layout the Audi wins, BMW's are just dull and our X5 whilst nice inside is still really poor incomparison to the likes of the Q7.

For me I'm an Audi man through and through after owning two RS4's and only on M6 but for sure the Audi's were the better car as a road car.

[Wills2]

A poll would have been interesting.

[Jandywa]

Fox- said:

No contest, of course, the M3 was known for being a terrible drivers car..

Never said it was. Just got massively put in the shade by the RS4.