Honda opens first hydrogen fuel station

[DanDC5]

Well, first public one anyway...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039583/UK...

IMO this is the future of the car.

[Melvin Udall]

Only 5p cheaper than petrol? I presume being a greeny thing, how much of that is tax/tax free? The specs for the car seem decent enough. 280 mile range, 129 HP.

[DanDC5]

I'd imagine the cost of the station and it being the only one is a large factor in the fuel price.

[Frik]

Packaging a 171 litre tank must be fun.

[Melvin Udall]

I would have thought they would be trying to get uptake, rather than get back cash this soon.

[ewenm]

DanDC5 said:

IMO this is the future of the car.

If and only if we can produce hydrogen efficiently enough. Hopefully fusion research will bear fruit in the next couple of decades.

[kambites]

I think the actual product cost is massively higher than petrol. Since you produce hydrogen by a thoroughly inefficient process using electricity which is generated thoroughly inefficiently in the first place, the net efficiency going from your original fuel to the energy that powers the wheels, is going to be something like 10% at best; which is less than half that of a conventional petrol engine and probably 1/3 that of a decent hybrid system running an ICE at constant load.

Better to view hydrogen as a thoroughly inefficient but highly versatile battery technology than as a fuel as such.

[Melvin Udall]

Article says


Customers have a smart-card account and are billed for their usage. Honda reckons that the hydrogen works out around 5p per litre equivalent cheaper than conventional petrol.

[buggalugs]

I wonder how it's sold, by the gram?

[DonkeyApple]

And now we have this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1497...

It if works you'll just need to tip your household and bodily waste into it.

The downside of cars running on Hydrogen is that Governments would have to start taxing Oxygen usuage over CO2 in order to keep raising revenues.

[ewenm]

buggalugs said:

I wonder how it's sold, by the gram?

By the litre I'd have thought.

[kambites]

ewenm said:

buggalugs said:

I wonder how it's sold, by the gram?

By the litre I'd have thought.

I'd imagine so, assuming it's compressed enough to liquefy.

[Dr Interceptor]

It is the future... The technology is there, the whole thing just needs refining. Once the art of producing the hydrogen is refined and made more economical, and once the fuel cells go into mass production, we'll be seeing £15k cars that use a fuel, just like our current cars.

We'll buy a car, fill it up and drive. Then when its empty, fill it again, and drive. No charging, no long stops... just how it is now.

The benefit being there will be zero emissions from the cars as we drive, and we won't be using up any precious fossil fuels.

This means the life of petrol will be extended, and we can all enjoy our nice powerful petrol engined cars at the weekends.

[iphonedyou]

Melvin Udall said:

Article says


Customers have a smart-card account and are billed for their usage. Honda reckons that the hydrogen works out around 5p per litre equivalent cheaper than conventional petrol.

I suppose combined with 3x the MPG equivalent that would mean very low running costs. Wonder what effect tax will eventually have on that price.

[kambites]

Dr Interceptor said:

It is the future... The technology is there, the whole thing just needs refining. Once the art of producing the hydrogen is refined and made more economical, and once the fuel cells go into mass production, we'll be seeing £15k cars that use a fuel, just like our current cars.

We'll buy a car, fill it up and drive. Then when its empty, fill it again, and drive. No charging, no long stops... just how it is now.

The benefit being there will be zero emissions from the cars as we drive, and we won't be using up any precious fossil fuels.

This means the life of petrol will be extended, and we can all enjoy our nice powerful petrol engined cars at the weekends.

You do realise that a hydrogen powered car is just another form of electric car? You need to generate more electricity (currently hugely more) to fuel a hydrogen car than you do to run a battery storage electric car so it still has the same problem - where do we get the electricity from? Even if hydrogen production gets more efficient, it can't get to more than 100% efficient so at best it'll be the same as a normal electric car.

This is just a way of getting 'round the inherent range problems of electric cars at the expense of efficiency.

[thinfourth2]

And so much more convient the electricty as its only 482 miles from my front door where as i would have to travel 8 meters to reach a electric car recharge point.

[Steameh]

Quick question, do hydrogen cars make any noise? Or would this signal the end of V8's V10's etc.

[Dr Interceptor]

kambites said:

You do realise that a hydrogen powered car is just another form of electric car? You need to generate more electricity (currently hugely more) to fuel a hydrogen car than you do to run a battery storage electric car so it still has the same problem - where do we get the electricity from? Even if hydrogen production gets more efficient, it can't get to more than 100% efficient so at best it'll be the same as a normal electric car.

It's a hydrogen powered vehicle. You put hydrogen in the tank - hydrogen goes into the 'fuel cell', hydrogen combines with oxygen... then some witchcraft happens, and electricity goes to the wheels. The only emission out the back is pure H2O. You don't have to get 'more electricity' from anywhere.

So as I said, once the process of producing the Hydrogen is refined, and once Fuel Cells are mass produced and made cheaper, this will be the future.

[kambites]

I wonder when the first plug-in hybrid with a fuel cell range extender will come? I would have thought it would be an obvious thing to do - a set of batteries that you can charge at home to give you the first chunk of your journey at a reasonable level of efficiency, with the ability to use hydrogen to extend that if you need to do longer journeys.

[kambites]

Dr Interceptor said:

kambites said:

You do realise that a hydrogen powered car is just another form of electric car? You need to generate more electricity (currently hugely more) to fuel a hydrogen car than you do to run a battery storage electric car so it still has the same problem - where do we get the electricity from? Even if hydrogen production gets more efficient, it can't get to more than 100% efficient so at best it'll be the same as a normal electric car.

It's a hydrogen powered vehicle. You put hydrogen in the tank - hydrogen goes into the 'fuel cell', hydrogen combines with oxygen... then some witchcraft happens, and electricity goes to the wheels. The only emission out the back is pure H2O. You don't have to get 'more electricity' from anywhere.

So as I said, once the process of producing the Hydrogen is refined, and once Fuel Cells are mass produced and made cheaper, this will be the future.

By "refined", you mean "breaking the laws of thermodynamics" then? Where is the energy to produce this hydrogen going to come from? The process can never be more than 100% efficient. Hydrogen cars are only "zero emission" in the same way that electric ones are.