RE: New Ginetta G60 Road Car Revealed
Discussion
When will some of you realise? - Car prices have gone up across the board. In 2001, a diesel Focus would have been about £14k (list price) - now it's more like £20k. The same applies for sports cars - The 911S is over £10k more than it was in 2004/5. You cannot buy a lightweight, niche sports car with a 6-cylinder engine and decent looks for £35k any longer.
Lotus list prices are in actual fact very low & good value at the moment! - This Ginetta is actually priced where I'd expect it to be, all things considered. I hope they do well.
Lotus list prices are in actual fact very low & good value at the moment! - This Ginetta is actually priced where I'd expect it to be, all things considered. I hope they do well.
Clivey said:
When will some of you realise? - Car prices have gone up across the board. In 2001, a diesel Focus would have been about £14k (list price) - now it's more like £20k. The same applies for sports cars - The 911S is over £10k more than it was in 2004/5. You cannot buy a lightweight, niche sports car with a 6-cylinder engine and decent looks for £35k any longer.
Lotus list prices are in actual fact very low & good value at the moment! - This Ginetta is actually priced where I'd expect it to be, all things considered. I hope they do well.
Precisely ! Take the new 911, for example, a well specced 911S is a 90-100k car. Lotus list prices are in actual fact very low & good value at the moment! - This Ginetta is actually priced where I'd expect it to be, all things considered. I hope they do well.
Prices have gone up a lot.
RJDM3 said:
British hand built, exlusive and only £68,000.00 , i am amazed they can produce it for that price and include a margin.
As for the people who say its to expensive...you really have no idea what it costs to produce a "production" ready vehicle. This is not the late 80's early 90's anymore!
My guess is this is why they have stripped out all the 3rd party tech like ABS etc and used the same marketing line that Wheeler used to that it was all nannying stuff and not for real men. TVR customers bought the line so it clearly works. As for the people who say its to expensive...you really have no idea what it costs to produce a "production" ready vehicle. This is not the late 80's early 90's anymore!
I've driven the car in its original guise and it is brilliant. I didn't like the positioning of the wheel v seat v gear stick in the original, I couldn't gel with it but apparently this has been one of the things altered.
I would guess that by using a more elementary engine and removing a lot of the costly and also price variable items they will have firstly dropped the price into a more acceptable ballpark and also left themselves with a good margin that makes it worth while.
I also guess that most will be LHD.
What interests me is why stick with CF for the shell. I was under the impression that it is very labour intensive and the raw material costly, so a GRP version would lower the price further and leave room for a mental version down the line at a bigger price? I can only guess that it was a combination of firstly it being good for marketing and maybe more practically the GRP would need to be thicker to have the same rigidity and may have meant re-working the underpinnings as well as being a bit lardy.
Clivey said:
When will some of you realise? - Car prices have gone up across the board. In 2001, a diesel Focus would have been about £14k (list price) - now it's more like £20k. The same applies for sports cars - The 911S is over £10k more than it was in 2004/5. You cannot buy a lightweight, niche sports car with a 6-cylinder engine and decent looks for £35k any longer.
Lotus list prices are in actual fact very low & good value at the moment! - This Ginetta is actually priced where I'd expect it to be, all things considered. I hope they do well.
UK List Prices:Lotus list prices are in actual fact very low & good value at the moment! - This Ginetta is actually priced where I'd expect it to be, all things considered. I hope they do well.
Lotus Evora - £49,600
Porsche Cayman R - £51,728
Porsche Spyder - £47,843
The market offers us lightweight sports cars with 6-cylinder engines for £20K less than the Ginetta. OK, not quite as niche but hardly on every corner. These cars also have a modicum of technology included in the price, a dealer network and a healthy second hand market. Why does Ginetta think it can command a premium? I don't see what its offering over and above any of the three models I have listed above.
RudeDog said:
The market offers us lightweight sports cars with 6-cylinder engines for £20K less than the Ginetta. OK, not quite as niche but hardly on every corner. These cars also have a modicum of technology included in the price, a dealer network and a healthy second hand market. Why does Ginetta think it can command a premium? I don't see what its offering over and above any of the three models I have listed above.
My guess is that what they're planning to offer, is a greatly superior driving experience. Lawrence Tomlinson is a very shrewd businessman, he knows that if it wouldn't sell at that price he wouldn't be making it. I would also imagine that having been building cars for a little while now he knows that he cannot physically make it in small numbers and make a little profit by charging less.
A Golf GTi costs £30k these days, this is twice as much. Or 1/3 the price of a Ferrari 458 or Mclaren MP. Almost a bargain to me.
A Golf GTi costs £30k these days, this is twice as much. Or 1/3 the price of a Ferrari 458 or Mclaren MP. Almost a bargain to me.
RudeDog said:
UK List Prices:
Lotus Evora - £49,600
Porsche Cayman R - £51,728
Porsche Spyder - £47,843
The market offers us lightweight sports cars with 6-cylinder engines for £20K less than the Ginetta.
Your definition of 'lightweight' differs somewhat from mine - of that lot, only the Spyder with its tent-for-a-roof comes below 1,300 kgs. Lotus Evora - £49,600
Porsche Cayman R - £51,728
Porsche Spyder - £47,843
The market offers us lightweight sports cars with 6-cylinder engines for £20K less than the Ginetta.
GhostDriver said:
Was kinda hoping that Ginetta would take up the old Lotus philosophy, and offer something light, cheap and fun.
But that never really was the Lotus' long-term philosophy. Sure the S1 Elise was quite cheap for what it offered, but as far as I know, that's really the only cheap car that Lotus have ever produced. Also, with other manufacturers finally starting to jump on the lightweight bandwagon, the market space for specialist cars is probably shrinking. ETA: And of course that's what the G40 is. So if you want a cheap lightweight Ginetta, there's already one out there for you.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th October 12:33
GhostDriver said:
Was kinda hoping that Ginetta would take up the old Lotus philosophy, and offer something light, cheap and fun.
But then again thought the same about Noble, and look what market they are chasing.
Crossing my fingers the new Caterham will manage it.
Caterham already offer that with the 7. I suspect the new Caterham will be in a similar segment to the Ginetta G40R - does that meet your "light, cheap and fun" criteria?But then again thought the same about Noble, and look what market they are chasing.
Crossing my fingers the new Caterham will manage it.
Chris-R said:
It's a welded tubular steel chassis with a cf shell.
Which really does make choosing CF over GRP a very odd decision, from an engineering standpoint, unless the shell is semi-structural. It would be at least 10k cheaper and probably significantly less than 50kg heavier if the body was GRP.I feel this car falls a bit between categories for me.
It's too expensive and slow to be a dedicated track car but if I were to have a road car that is track focussed I would rather have something like a GT3RS which has a few creature comforts.
Or put in other words. It is not special enough to be a weekend car and not comfortable enough to be a daily driver. I just can't think of a reason to buy one.
It's too expensive and slow to be a dedicated track car but if I were to have a road car that is track focussed I would rather have something like a GT3RS which has a few creature comforts.
Or put in other words. It is not special enough to be a weekend car and not comfortable enough to be a daily driver. I just can't think of a reason to buy one.
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