RE: New Ginetta G60 Road Car Revealed

[RudeDog]

ewenm said:

RudeDog said:

I think you'd be mad to buy this over an Evora S or a Cayman R... both considerably cheaper.

I guess it depends how much you value the "unassisted" philosophy of this car.

I still don't understand it though. If you want unassisted driving thrills, buy a Caterham Seven. Its much faster and will be much more raw than this G60. The Ginetta claims to be a road car so why would you not want any driver aids at all?

This car, for me, fits in a market segment that doesn't really exist. I think 50 units a year is very optimistic. Don't get me wrong, I bet its a great car to drive but at nearly £70K, its far too expensive.

[otolith]

ewenm said:

RudeDog said:

I think you'd be mad to buy this over an Evora S or a Cayman R... both considerably cheaper.

I guess it depends how much you value the "unassisted" philosophy of this car.

Which is also what I was getting at by remarking that if the Nissan GTR is an alternative, one should also consider the S-class Merc - the USP of this thing is that it isn't anything like any of those cars.

I think the alternative to consider would be the V6 Exige, but that may well also be a less analogue experience than its predecessors.

[Schnellmann]

Twincam16 said:

I don't see why 'no PAS' = 'hair shirt'. Similarly, this is Britain, not Arizona, so neither is 'no aircon' either. If I was buying a Porsche, I wouldn't specify aircon because it's not a luxury saloon, for the same reason I wouldn't specify automatic transmission, or any option that made it heavier or more complicated than it needed to be.

I get the point about ABS though. It hardly detracts from the driving experience and it is IMO one of the things that seriously undermined TVR.

No PAS, no driving aids and no servo on brakes all good...but not so sure about lack of ABS and much less sure about lack of a/c. If you have a long session on track or a long drive on the road (and you are working the car hard) a/c is a definite boon. I wonder whether that is an option?

[kambites]

Has anyone ever built a car with ABS but no brake servo? If not, why not?

[ewenm]

RudeDog said:

I still don't understand it though. If you want unassisted driving thrills, buy a Caterham Seven. Its much faster and will be much more raw than this G60. The Ginetta claims to be a road car so why would you not want any driver aids at all?

This car, for me, fits in a market segment that doesn't really exist. I think 50 units a year is very optimistic. Don't get me wrong, I bet its a great car to drive but at nearly £70K, its far too expensive.

I'd like the feel and involvement of a Caterham in a car I can drive all year round (now I'm too sensible/boring to use my 7 every day). It's not about "rawness", it's about "directness" and "feel". My 67 Mustang doesn't have any driver aids and feels great to drive (despite it being a wallowy, relatively slow beast). Our Volvo V50 is very easy to drive but you don't feel very connected to the experience (although it is still better than some).

I can see this car being considered by those who also consider the Evora and Cayman. Most will still go for one of those, but only a few need to go for the G60 to hit their targets.

[Shewie]

I think we should applaud Lawrence Tomlinson for creating a genuinely exiting British brand with a motorsport pedigree from what was a dying company . I think that despite the price tag the sales targets are eminently achievable given 50 units a year and therefore genuine exclusivity. As mentioned previously they only need to sell 1 a week!

[ewenm]

kambites said:

Has anyone ever built a car with ABS but no brake servo? If not, why not?

Interesting. How would you activate/deactivate the brakes electronically with no servo to do the action?

[thewheelman]

RudeDog said:

I still don't understand it though. If you want unassisted driving thrills, buy a Caterham Seven. Its much faster and will be much more raw than this G60. The Ginetta claims to be a road car so why would you not want any driver aids at all?

Simple answer really, not everyone fits in a Caterham, & some people want a roof.

[kambites]

ewenm said:

kambites said:

Has anyone ever built a car with ABS but no brake servo? If not, why not?

Interesting. How would you activate/deactivate the brakes electronically with no servo to do the action?

I don't really know how modern ABS systems work, to be honest.

[loomx]

Love it, looks great, power to weight is good too.

The 0-60 time doesnt seem right to me, that engine in the Mustang does 0-60 in 5.6 seconds with a little less horsepower... So I cant see how halfing the weight only drops it by 0.7 seconds.

Having a quick look on the internet for a 0-60 calculator, that reckons 0-60mph is 3.86 seconds and 0-100kph is 3.94 seconds. Which seems much more realistic in terms of power to weight.

Worldcarfans.com is reporting that it does 0-60 in under 4 seconds too... did someone make a mistake and type 4.9 instead of 3.9?

[kambites]

RudeDog said:

I still don't understand it though. If you want unassisted driving thrills, buy a Caterham Seven. Its much faster and will be much more raw than this G60. The Ginetta claims to be a road car so why would you not want any driver aids at all?

Who said anything about wanting a car to be raw? I'd hope the Ginetta is quite a civilised thing to drive.

I think it'll sell to people who wish that Porsche still made proper drivers' cars. Although having said that, Lotus were aiming the Evora at broadly the same market, and it doesn't seem to have worked.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th October 11:16

[Chris-R]

Hubert K said:

@ Chris
are there some more pictures showing interieur (new dashboard), Front and rear lights and New Carbon Fibre Air intake?

Hubert - that's all we've got for now. Press launch next week though, so all will be revealed! Chris

[ge0rge]

I actually really like the look of this, i think id take it based on looks over the current lotus offerings. The price is slightely offputting but for this sort of limited output / sales its to be expected.

[kambites]

ge0rge said:

I actually really like the look of this, i think id take it based on looks over the current lotus offerings. The price is slightely offputting but for this sort of limited output / sales its to be expected.

Lets be honest, it's not hard to beat the current Lotus offerings on looks.

[ewenm]

kambites said:

RudeDog said:

I still don't understand it though. If you want unassisted driving thrills, buy a Caterham Seven. Its much faster and will be much more raw than this G60. The Ginetta claims to be a road car so why would you not want any driver aids at all?

Who said anything about wanting a car to be raw? I'd hope the Ginetta is quite a civilised thing to drive.

There's a big difference between "unassisted" and "raw". A Caterham is both. I'd expect the G60 to be unassisted and civilised. "Rawness" is usually a function of how much NVH work has gone into the development. Of course this needs to be balanced against keeping the weight down.

[grahamw48]

Very nice, and it's produced in this country by a BRITISH owned company.

[steveq135]

kambites said:

I think it'll sell to people who wish that Porsche still made proper drivers' cars.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th October 11:16

• Facepalm* Never driven a Spyder / CaymanR then?

• Prepares boiling oil*

[cerb4.5lee]

tim2100 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Thought it might be quicker than those fiqures suggest considering its price & weight,at least there are not any driver aids for good fun & games!

As others have said its designed to handle rather than have outright pace.

Seems pricey to me, TVR went down the toilet & only charged between roughly 40k to 55k,it has limited appeal,but thats a good thing.

How much would 40k to 55k be in todays money?
It only needs limited appeal to sell 1 per week.
Seems a great car, nicely driver focused without being a track only car. Something different.

I really like the car & as you say asking price probably right in current times,the performance fiqures dont seem to add up to me,thought it would be quicker than that.

If it was my money i think it would be spent elsewhere,not that i have that money!!!

[cerb4.5lee]

rhinochopig said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Thought it might be quicker than those fiqures suggest considering its price & weight,at least there are not any driver aids for good fun & games!

As others have said its designed to handle rather than have outright pace.

Seems pricey to me, TVR went down the toilet & only charged between roughly 40k to 55k,it has limited appeal,but thats a good thing.

But how much did TVR lose through rectifying reliability problems? And don't forget knock on effects of these problems on customer confidence. And the fact that they couldn't sell into a global market, etc.

There was much more to it than simply unit price.

Agreed, Ginetta are head & shoulders above TVR,customers didnt have confidence in TVR & rightly so why would you spend 50k for it to breakdown every other day hence why they went under.

Ginetta seem to have the right recipe & thats why they are still a successful business,long may that continue.

[kambites]

steveq135 said:

kambites said:

I think it'll sell to people who wish that Porsche still made proper drivers' cars.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th October 11:16

• Facepalm* Never driven a Spyder / CaymanR then?

• Prepares boiling oil*

I no I haven't, I was only being half serious. However, if it has the same awful steering rack as the rest of the Boxster/911 range, then I don't particularly want to either.

It's not even the power assistance they buggered up (although it's still not the most feelsome rack, it's pretty good), the damned thing isn't linear! Of course Ginetta haven't actually said that this will have a proper linear rack, but it would be quite surprising if it didn't since it's hopefully not going to be aimed at people who are incapable of driving in a straight line with a normal steering rack.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th October 12:02