RE: Driven: BMW 640d Coupe
Discussion
fastgerman said:
Hahaha just what I was thinking :-)
Does anyone realise that a 335i (mapped) would be faster than 335d (mapped)
All diesels still sound like tractors and even though they are suppose to be clean, I always notice modern cars producing black smoke on acceleration on the motorways. Petrol (per litre) and servicing is cheaper so not that much benefit to diesel in my opinion. They smell also.
Very naive thing to say.Does anyone realise that a 335i (mapped) would be faster than 335d (mapped)
All diesels still sound like tractors and even though they are suppose to be clean, I always notice modern cars producing black smoke on acceleration on the motorways. Petrol (per litre) and servicing is cheaper so not that much benefit to diesel in my opinion. They smell also.
Lovely car. I passengered in the old 635d for a 3 hour trip and it was lovely.
Mind you, the 640d is bloody expensive. It is a lot of money and I don't see the value considering the engine turns up all over the place in other ( cheaper) BMWs.
It would be easy to throw £70,000 at a new 640d. That a big debit card transfer. Maybe leasing one is the answer !
Mind you, the 640d is bloody expensive. It is a lot of money and I don't see the value considering the engine turns up all over the place in other ( cheaper) BMWs.
It would be easy to throw £70,000 at a new 640d. That a big debit card transfer. Maybe leasing one is the answer !
thewheelman said:
This makes me laugh, not one person that i know would buy a £60k coupe with mpg as the most important thing. Which those costs are negated by the huge depreciation.
+1As much as it annoys me to be filling up all the time (I run two V8 petrol cars), I can't see the point in high end diesels as a private purchase. If you want to be frugal don't buy a £60k car. You might save a few grand by choosing diesel but you could save £25k by buying a £35k 3 series petrol instead, which is hardly slumming it.
For high mileage company car drivers which are probably the majority of buyers it might make sense, but not for private buyers.
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
kambites said:
thewheelman said:
I'm not doubting the sales figures. It just amazes me that people can spend so much on their cars, then have an issue with running costs. The Range Rover makes perfect sense in diesel, yet the R8 V10, sorry but it just doesn't add up to me. A workhorse & a supercar have very different uses. I admit, i'm no fan of diesel, & i do agree they sell well, & have their uses.
I don't understand what you think the petrol offers, in this case. People will look at the 640i and 640d... and see that the petrol offers absolutely nothing over the diesel, which costs half as much to run. Why on earth would they pick the petrol? 
Of those GT cars, only one REALLY competes with the £60k 6-Series - the Merc CLK, the majority sold are diesel.
Beyond that none....yet. But as they are potentially missing out on 92% of sales, others are looking at it (Merc with the SL and CL, plus Bentley have been working on a Conti Oil Burner for 3 years+).
Webber3 said:
+1
As much as it annoys me to be filling up all the time (I run two V8 petrol cars), I can't see the point in high end diesels as a private purchase. If you want to be frugal don't buy a £60k car. You might save a few grand by choosing diesel but you could save £25k by buying a £35k 3 series petrol instead, which is hardly slumming it.
For high mileage company car drivers which are probably the majority of buyers it might make sense, but not for private buyers.
corporate hierarchyAs much as it annoys me to be filling up all the time (I run two V8 petrol cars), I can't see the point in high end diesels as a private purchase. If you want to be frugal don't buy a £60k car. You might save a few grand by choosing diesel but you could save £25k by buying a £35k 3 series petrol instead, which is hardly slumming it.
For high mileage company car drivers which are probably the majority of buyers it might make sense, but not for private buyers.
fluffnik said:
thewheelman said:
All i see here is a load of cliches about "wafting" places, & people that probably travel across Europe maybe once or twice in a lifetime.
I tend to do it once or twice a year...Being able to drive to Malmö on a tank is most certainly a feature.
thewheelman said:
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
kambites said:
thewheelman said:
I'm not doubting the sales figures. It just amazes me that people can spend so much on their cars, then have an issue with running costs. The Range Rover makes perfect sense in diesel, yet the R8 V10, sorry but it just doesn't add up to me. A workhorse & a supercar have very different uses. I admit, i'm no fan of diesel, & i do agree they sell well, & have their uses.
I don't understand what you think the petrol offers, in this case. People will look at the 640i and 640d... and see that the petrol offers absolutely nothing over the diesel, which costs half as much to run. Why on earth would they pick the petrol? Of those GT cars, only one REALLY competes with the £60k 6-Series - the Merc CLK, the majority sold are diesel.
Beyond that none....yet. But as they are potentially missing out on 92% of sales, others are looking at it (Merc with the SL and CL, plus Bentley have been working on a Conti Oil Burner for 3 years+).
Out of interest, if you deem a CLK (or E-Class Coupe to be more modern) as not a GT, what is your definition of a GT car? In comparison to a 640d?
Also, out of interest - how many 6 series were sold in the last 3 years compared to the total number of Bentley Continentals/612s/Maserati GTs/DB9s/etc?
thewheelman said:
So where are all the other great diesel powered GT cars? The Astons, Bentleys, Ferraris, Maseratis, Mercedes. All very well known for great GT cars, how many of them are diesel?
Can you imagine the outcries from the majority of the member base here if/when the marques you have mentioned do a diesel varient? How many comments about brand dilution would there be.Perhaps we should be asking what GT cars would we like to see with a diesel engine? Would you prefer an in-house developed engine or something from another car in the parent companys portfolio where the choice is available?
A Continental GT with the V12 TDI engine surely wouldn't offer enough difference in economy given its 25mpg combined cycle comapred to the standard 17mpg given how much the base price of the car is. The 4.2 TDI unit wouldn't be powerful enough with only 350bhp but its 37mpg would be a significant improvement. Neither option would sell well imo.
Maybe the 3.0 V6 diesel from the XF in S guise with 275bhp and 45mpg would do well in the Jagaur XK where the base V8 only does 25mpg. 0-60 should be somewhere around 5.6 given the XK weighs less than the XF but would a diesel suit a car that is perceived to be more sporty than the BMW 6 series?
Defconluke said:
thewheelman said:
So where are all the other great diesel powered GT cars? The Astons, Bentleys, Ferraris, Maseratis, Mercedes. All very well known for great GT cars, how many of them are diesel?
Can you imagine the outcries from the majority of the member base here if/when the marques you have mentioned do a diesel varient? How many comments about brand dilution would there be.Perhaps we should be asking what GT cars would we like to see with a diesel engine? Would you prefer an in-house developed engine or something from another car in the parent companys portfolio where the choice is available?
A Continental GT with the V12 TDI engine surely wouldn't offer enough difference in economy given its 25mpg combined cycle comapred to the standard 17mpg given how much the base price of the car is. The 4.2 TDI unit wouldn't be powerful enough with only 350bhp but its 37mpg would be a significant improvement. Neither option would sell well imo.
Maybe the 3.0 V6 diesel from the XF in S guise with 275bhp and 45mpg would do well in the Jagaur XK where the base V8 only does 25mpg. 0-60 should be somewhere around 5.6 given the XK weighs less than the XF but would a diesel suit a car that is perceived to be more sporty than the BMW 6 series?
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
kambites said:
thewheelman said:
I'm not doubting the sales figures. It just amazes me that people can spend so much on their cars, then have an issue with running costs. The Range Rover makes perfect sense in diesel, yet the R8 V10, sorry but it just doesn't add up to me. A workhorse & a supercar have very different uses. I admit, i'm no fan of diesel, & i do agree they sell well, & have their uses.
I don't understand what you think the petrol offers, in this case. People will look at the 640i and 640d... and see that the petrol offers absolutely nothing over the diesel, which costs half as much to run. Why on earth would they pick the petrol? Of those GT cars, only one REALLY competes with the £60k 6-Series - the Merc CLK, the majority sold are diesel.
Beyond that none....yet. But as they are potentially missing out on 92% of sales, others are looking at it (Merc with the SL and CL, plus Bentley have been working on a Conti Oil Burner for 3 years+).
Out of interest, if you deem a CLK (or E-Class Coupe to be more modern) as not a GT, what is your definition of a GT car? In comparison to a 640d?
Also, out of interest - how many 6 series were sold in the last 3 years compared to the total number of Bentley Continentals/612s/Maserati GTs/DB9s/etc?
Ramses said:
thewheelman said:
Also, none of the others are struggling with sales figures, i'm guessing this figure of 92% that you quote was plucked out of thin air.
Are ANY of the ones you mention selling as many as the 635d/640d?....and the 92% was quoted in the article
Edited by thewheelman on Monday 10th October 15:03
Edited by thewheelman on Monday 10th October 15:03
thewheelman said:
The CLK is clearly not a GT car, you're on your own if you think it is. The SL isn't either, that was an error in my reply. GT cars are generally large 4 seat, powerful coupes. In terms of price, i guess the closest to the BMW would be the Jaguar XK, which i'd take over the BMW. Then there's the higher priced cars already mentioned. You could argue that the 911 has GT car qualities these days. Now compare the sales of those to the 6 series, & they seem to being doing rather well without a diesel in the range.
have you been in a new XK? the interior felt really cheap compared to newer BMW interiors. the 911 isn't a GT car, it's a sports car. the boot is tiny and it's not as comfortable or refined; though the only 997 i've been in is a turbo.it appears audi don't make a decent GT car. the SL is probably mercs rival (hence they did one on top gear) but this doesn't come with a diesel.
for company directors etc this does make sense as already pointed out. same price as a V8, in-gear performance better and all-out performance only a tiny bit less, quieter, cheaper to run on fuel and servicing, cheaper on BLK tax etc.
Okay... so what GT cars would we like to see in diesel form?
Astons - none. They need to spend every penny they have developing a new model lineup, don't waste cash on a diesel engine.
Bentley - no reason why they couldn't come up with one as part of the VW group. Something fantastically grunty with decent economy that could be shared across the VW group and also rest in the Cayenne and Panamera. Do Audi already have a good one for the A8?
Porsche - see Bentley.
Ferrari - possibly in certain cars - like the boulevard cruiser California. However, given diesel isn't widely used in the states, it would be a Europe only investment, and I can't see it working for Ferrari.
Maserati - Yes... stick a diesel in the Quattroporte and get it competing with the top end S-Class, 7-Series and Panamera.
Mercedes - As they already offer a Diesel S-Class, so reason in my opinion why they shouldn't stretch a CDi option across to more models.
Astons - none. They need to spend every penny they have developing a new model lineup, don't waste cash on a diesel engine.
Bentley - no reason why they couldn't come up with one as part of the VW group. Something fantastically grunty with decent economy that could be shared across the VW group and also rest in the Cayenne and Panamera. Do Audi already have a good one for the A8?
Porsche - see Bentley.
Ferrari - possibly in certain cars - like the boulevard cruiser California. However, given diesel isn't widely used in the states, it would be a Europe only investment, and I can't see it working for Ferrari.
Maserati - Yes... stick a diesel in the Quattroporte and get it competing with the top end S-Class, 7-Series and Panamera.
Mercedes - As they already offer a Diesel S-Class, so reason in my opinion why they shouldn't stretch a CDi option across to more models.
So......
Nothing can really compete with the 6-series in this smaller 'GT' market.
Of those that can't compete, no-one else had a diesel.
Of those that can't compete, some are developing a diesel.
Of those that DO have a diesel GT car, diesel's account for 92% of sales.
mmmmm..... wonder what conclusions we can draw. Anyone?
Nothing can really compete with the 6-series in this smaller 'GT' market.
Of those that can't compete, no-one else had a diesel.
Of those that can't compete, some are developing a diesel.
Of those that DO have a diesel GT car, diesel's account for 92% of sales.
mmmmm..... wonder what conclusions we can draw. Anyone?
Dr Interceptor said:
Okay... so what GT cars would we like to see in diesel form?
Astons - none. They need to spend every penny they have developing a new model lineup, don't waste cash on a diesel engine.
Bentley - no reason why they couldn't come up with one as part of the VW group. Something fantastically grunty with decent economy that could be shared across the VW group and also rest in the Cayenne and Panamera. Do Audi already have a good one for the A8?
Porsche - see Bentley.
Ferrari - possibly in certain cars - like the boulevard cruiser California. However, given diesel isn't widely used in the states, it would be a Europe only investment, and I can't see it working for Ferrari.
Maserati - Yes... stick a diesel in the Quattroporte and get it competing with the top end S-Class, 7-Series and Panamera.
Mercedes - As they already offer a Diesel S-Class, so reason in my opinion why they shouldn't stretch a CDi option across to more models.
Reading this makes my wonder why none of the luxury Japanese players have entered this market. Surely a Lexus or Infiniti could potentially clean up?Astons - none. They need to spend every penny they have developing a new model lineup, don't waste cash on a diesel engine.
Bentley - no reason why they couldn't come up with one as part of the VW group. Something fantastically grunty with decent economy that could be shared across the VW group and also rest in the Cayenne and Panamera. Do Audi already have a good one for the A8?
Porsche - see Bentley.
Ferrari - possibly in certain cars - like the boulevard cruiser California. However, given diesel isn't widely used in the states, it would be a Europe only investment, and I can't see it working for Ferrari.
Maserati - Yes... stick a diesel in the Quattroporte and get it competing with the top end S-Class, 7-Series and Panamera.
Mercedes - As they already offer a Diesel S-Class, so reason in my opinion why they shouldn't stretch a CDi option across to more models.
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