Large alloys - what is the point?
Discussion
Big Rod said:
swiveleyedgit said:
Patrick Bateman said:
At what age do you start to become overly concerned with a harsh ride?
No pun intended.
58No pun intended.
I bought my car with 18s on it and got fed up arriving at work with my spine sticking out the top of my head so bought a set of 17s, (originals were 16s). Not a huge difference in diameter but the ride quality is like night and day with little or no discernable difference in handling/roadholding.
swiveleyedgit said:
Patrick Bateman said:
At what age do you start to become overly concerned with a harsh ride?
No pun intended.
58No pun intended.
I bought my car with 18s on it and got fed up arriving at work with my spine sticking out the top of my head so bought a set of 17s, (originals were 16s). Not a huge difference in diameter but the ride quality is like night and day with little or no discernable difference in handling/roadholding.
CommanderJameson said:
Obviously "useless" is a hyperbolic term, used for effect, in this conversation - after all, any wheel is better than none at all.
>doesn't notice all but the deepest potholes, doesn't have problems with tramlining, pays less for wheels and tyres, doesn't need a separate set of winter wheels on his 13-y-o snotter<
>doesn't notice all but the deepest potholes, doesn't have problems with tramlining, pays less for wheels and tyres, doesn't need a separate set of winter wheels on his 13-y-o snotter<
Being absolutely honest though I reckon plenty of the generalisations about bigger wheels come from the choice of tyre.
My 3 Series was terrible on a bumpy road and tramlined like mad until I changed the tyres from Bridgestone runflats to Michelin runflats, it changed the car for the better immeasurably.
BTW those problems you describe above I have had (terribly) in a car on standard 15" wheels albeit low profile tyres.
Urban Sports said:
Puddenchucker said:
CommanderJameson said:
That some cars with big wheels handle well is a tribute to the suspension engineers involved.
It used to be the case, don't know if it still is, that a car's suspension was developed/optimised around a particular wheel/tyre combination which was usually from the smaller end of its available sizes (e.g. 205/55 R16).Fitting (optional) larger wheels/lower profile tyres simply increased the unsprung mass and reduced tyre sidewall depth to an extent that the spring/dampers were operating outside of their optimum to the detriment of ride/handling.
In other words a car engineered around and fitted with 18" wheels will, usually, ride/handle better that one engineered around 16" wheels that is then fitted with 18" from the otions list.
You can't expect to stick 18" wheels on an SE 3 series and expect it to be better, just like you can't put 16" wheels on an M3 and expect that to be better either.
So they spend a lot of extra money to make their high-performance car worse. Why? Same as always, big wheel fans are poseurs.
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
Puddenchucker said:
CommanderJameson said:
That some cars with big wheels handle well is a tribute to the suspension engineers involved.
It used to be the case, don't know if it still is, that a car's suspension was developed/optimised around a particular wheel/tyre combination which was usually from the smaller end of its available sizes (e.g. 205/55 R16).Fitting (optional) larger wheels/lower profile tyres simply increased the unsprung mass and reduced tyre sidewall depth to an extent that the spring/dampers were operating outside of their optimum to the detriment of ride/handling.
In other words a car engineered around and fitted with 18" wheels will, usually, ride/handle better that one engineered around 16" wheels that is then fitted with 18" from the otions list.
You can't expect to stick 18" wheels on an SE 3 series and expect it to be better, just like you can't put 16" wheels on an M3 and expect that to be better either.
So they spend a lot of extra money to make their high-performance car worse. Why? Same as always, big wheel fans are poseurs.
A world apart from what would be considered a small wheel.
Edited by Urban Sports on Wednesday 12th October 21:55
Urban Sports said:
CommanderJameson said:
Obviously "useless" is a hyperbolic term, used for effect, in this conversation - after all, any wheel is better than none at all.
>doesn't notice all but the deepest potholes, doesn't have problems with tramlining, pays less for wheels and tyres, doesn't need a separate set of winter wheels on his 13-y-o snotter<
>doesn't notice all but the deepest potholes, doesn't have problems with tramlining, pays less for wheels and tyres, doesn't need a separate set of winter wheels on his 13-y-o snotter<
Being absolutely honest though I reckon plenty of the generalisations about bigger wheels come from the choice of tyre.
My 3 Series was terrible on a bumpy road and tramlined like mad until I changed the tyres from Bridgestone runflats to Michelin runflats, it changed the car for the better immeasurably.
BTW those problems you describe above I have had (terribly) in a car on standard 15" wheels albeit low profile tyres.
Also, I've never driven a car on runflats that wouldn't have its ride improved by chucking them in a ditch and fitting normal tyres.
Urban Sports said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
Puddenchucker said:
CommanderJameson said:
That some cars with big wheels handle well is a tribute to the suspension engineers involved.
It used to be the case, don't know if it still is, that a car's suspension was developed/optimised around a particular wheel/tyre combination which was usually from the smaller end of its available sizes (e.g. 205/55 R16).Fitting (optional) larger wheels/lower profile tyres simply increased the unsprung mass and reduced tyre sidewall depth to an extent that the spring/dampers were operating outside of their optimum to the detriment of ride/handling.
In other words a car engineered around and fitted with 18" wheels will, usually, ride/handle better that one engineered around 16" wheels that is then fitted with 18" from the otions list.
You can't expect to stick 18" wheels on an SE 3 series and expect it to be better, just like you can't put 16" wheels on an M3 and expect that to be better either.
So they spend a lot of extra money to make their high-performance car worse. Why? Same as always, big wheel fans are poseurs.
A world apart from what would be considered a small wheel.
Look at loony Caterhams, 14 inch wheels where they could easily spec 17s. Why don't they? Ask the engineers, not the salesmen.
F1 - performance is everything, and no compromise to sales. Ergo, small wheels.
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
Puddenchucker said:
CommanderJameson said:
That some cars with big wheels handle well is a tribute to the suspension engineers involved.
It used to be the case, don't know if it still is, that a car's suspension was developed/optimised around a particular wheel/tyre combination which was usually from the smaller end of its available sizes (e.g. 205/55 R16).Fitting (optional) larger wheels/lower profile tyres simply increased the unsprung mass and reduced tyre sidewall depth to an extent that the spring/dampers were operating outside of their optimum to the detriment of ride/handling.
In other words a car engineered around and fitted with 18" wheels will, usually, ride/handle better that one engineered around 16" wheels that is then fitted with 18" from the otions list.
You can't expect to stick 18" wheels on an SE 3 series and expect it to be better, just like you can't put 16" wheels on an M3 and expect that to be better either.
So they spend a lot of extra money to make their high-performance car worse. Why? Same as always, big wheel fans are poseurs.
A world apart from what would be considered a small wheel.
Look at loony Caterhams, 14 inch wheels where they could easily spec 17s. Why don't they? Ask the engineers, not the salesmen.
F1 - performance is everything, and no compromise to sales. Ergo, small wheels.
theboss said:
Big Rod said:
42.
Oh dear - 29 for me. I'm hoping for a pair of slippers for Christmas.At least an E65 allows the best of both worlds to a certain extent - 20" wheels and still a silky smooth ride compared to the E90 on both the 17's and 18's I used.
Whippersnapper!! <tuts>
Urban Sports said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
Puddenchucker said:
CommanderJameson said:
That some cars with big wheels handle well is a tribute to the suspension engineers involved.
It used to be the case, don't know if it still is, that a car's suspension was developed/optimised around a particular wheel/tyre combination which was usually from the smaller end of its available sizes (e.g. 205/55 R16).Fitting (optional) larger wheels/lower profile tyres simply increased the unsprung mass and reduced tyre sidewall depth to an extent that the spring/dampers were operating outside of their optimum to the detriment of ride/handling.
In other words a car engineered around and fitted with 18" wheels will, usually, ride/handle better that one engineered around 16" wheels that is then fitted with 18" from the otions list.
You can't expect to stick 18" wheels on an SE 3 series and expect it to be better, just like you can't put 16" wheels on an M3 and expect that to be better either.
So they spend a lot of extra money to make their high-performance car worse. Why? Same as always, big wheel fans are poseurs.
A world apart from what would be considered a small wheel.
Look at loony Caterhams, 14 inch wheels where they could easily spec 17s. Why don't they? Ask the engineers, not the salesmen.
F1 - performance is everything, and no compromise to sales. Ergo, small wheels.
northandy said:
I remember when i was first driving fitting a set of 14 inch compomotive alloys to my nova was a big deal. Switch to today one of our company cars has been specced with 20 inch alloys.
My first car was a bog standard Cortina. I remember my peers, (who had mainly MKII Escorts), wanting the wheels off Capris because although they were the same pattern, they were wider with a deeper dish. Wider was the way back then and it made sense!!Sadly it was a co' car and if I was found to have tampered with it there'd have been hell to pay so wheels were out of the question as they'd have been easily noticed.
Unfortunately however, they sprung my replacement car on me one day by surprise and I didn't have time to remove my 'HiPower' Sharp radio/cassette player, craftily hidden speakers and graphic equaliser, rear headrests, electric aerial, Ghia dials, (had a rev' counter!!), and Granada trip computer! <sigh>
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Urban Sports said:
Puddenchucker said:
CommanderJameson said:
That some cars with big wheels handle well is a tribute to the suspension engineers involved.
It used to be the case, don't know if it still is, that a car's suspension was developed/optimised around a particular wheel/tyre combination which was usually from the smaller end of its available sizes (e.g. 205/55 R16).Fitting (optional) larger wheels/lower profile tyres simply increased the unsprung mass and reduced tyre sidewall depth to an extent that the spring/dampers were operating outside of their optimum to the detriment of ride/handling.
In other words a car engineered around and fitted with 18" wheels will, usually, ride/handle better that one engineered around 16" wheels that is then fitted with 18" from the otions list.
You can't expect to stick 18" wheels on an SE 3 series and expect it to be better, just like you can't put 16" wheels on an M3 and expect that to be better either.
So they spend a lot of extra money to make their high-performance car worse. Why? Same as always, big wheel fans are poseurs.
A world apart from what would be considered a small wheel.
Look at loony Caterhams, 14 inch wheels where they could easily spec 17s. Why don't they? Ask the engineers, not the salesmen.
F1 - performance is everything, and no compromise to sales. Ergo, small wheels.
BTW I have haven't stated that all big wheels are better, nor would I be narrow minded enough to say all small wheels are better.
Like I said it depends on their application, from my experience both have their merits.
Also with regards to F1 unless the rules change, I guess we will never know
I would say 15 years ago the most popular wheel size was 13inch. Was it not in the early/mid ninties the 911 came with 16s as standard and you had to spec the massive 17s ?
Take the Ford Focus, the mk 1 model in 1999 came with 14 inch steel wheels, then the mk2 Focus in 2005 made to jump to 15 inch steel wheels in base form, then the facelift mk2.5 Focus in 2008 made the jump to 16 inch steel wheels. I dont know what the mk3 runs this year but you see where its going.
Why did Ford need to increase the wheel size every time the model was updated. Im sure the brakes in the 2011 1.4 Focus arent a whole lot bigger than the brakes on the 1999 model. I think its purely looks and to match other manufacturers. Neighbour has a brand new Scenic which runs 17s. I recall seeing 17s on Colins rally Impreza as a teenager and thinking WOW, the wheels for tarmac are massive!
I have now gone full circle after a few bad winters and broken wheels/damaged tyres. Gimme a 195/65/15 over a 245/35/18 any day
Take the Ford Focus, the mk 1 model in 1999 came with 14 inch steel wheels, then the mk2 Focus in 2005 made to jump to 15 inch steel wheels in base form, then the facelift mk2.5 Focus in 2008 made the jump to 16 inch steel wheels. I dont know what the mk3 runs this year but you see where its going.
Why did Ford need to increase the wheel size every time the model was updated. Im sure the brakes in the 2011 1.4 Focus arent a whole lot bigger than the brakes on the 1999 model. I think its purely looks and to match other manufacturers. Neighbour has a brand new Scenic which runs 17s. I recall seeing 17s on Colins rally Impreza as a teenager and thinking WOW, the wheels for tarmac are massive!
I have now gone full circle after a few bad winters and broken wheels/damaged tyres. Gimme a 195/65/15 over a 245/35/18 any day
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