RE: Six Of The Best? Forgotten Hot Hatches
Discussion
KingPoker said:
Perhaps I should go into slightly more detail. I just get annoyed when I see cars being touted as unsung hero's when if you show pretty much any of these one's here a corner, they will buckle at the knees.
To me, it's about more than point and shoot. And sadly that's where the SEAT also lets itself down. I have driven every model of Cupra FR since they came out (I learnt to drive in one) and they are rapid in a staright line but so unresponsive in the corners. They instill no confidence.
The Integra Type R I owned and current car 3.0 Z4 SE actually involve you in the drive. I'm not saying these cars in the article aren't good because of the thrills gained per £ but after you have driven a FWD car with a LSD and amazing race ready chassis and a RWD with perfect 50/50 balance you realise what a car should be like.
Therefore in my opinion it's obvious why the Civic Type R's, Golf GTI MK1's and Clio Cups have stolen the limelight. Because they offered something these cars never could/did.
I never thought I'd meet anyone who could say they'd driven all those cars, especially with them being a slightly less obvious mix.To me, it's about more than point and shoot. And sadly that's where the SEAT also lets itself down. I have driven every model of Cupra FR since they came out (I learnt to drive in one) and they are rapid in a staright line but so unresponsive in the corners. They instill no confidence.
The Integra Type R I owned and current car 3.0 Z4 SE actually involve you in the drive. I'm not saying these cars in the article aren't good because of the thrills gained per £ but after you have driven a FWD car with a LSD and amazing race ready chassis and a RWD with perfect 50/50 balance you realise what a car should be like.
Therefore in my opinion it's obvious why the Civic Type R's, Golf GTI MK1's and Clio Cups have stolen the limelight. Because they offered something these cars never could/did.
I mean no one would assume any of the points you've made there, without actually being sure from first-hand experience, would they?
melvster said:
Sunbeam Lotus, now that is a forgotten hot hatch.
Page 2 
Robin Hood said:
Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, 0 to 60 6.6 secs and 125 mph for a standard car, the rally cars were 5 secs. Outright victories on the Arctic Rally, Mille Pistes, Lombard RAC and Codasur (Argentina) rallies were combined with numerous class wins that culminated with victory in the World Rally Championship for Makes in 1981.
Edited by Robin Hood on Saturday 22 October 10:30
Kitchski said:
Cars like the Proton GTi/Colt GTi, Charade GTti, Xsara VTS, Focus ST170 even perhaps? No one gives them a second thought, except for those that are 'in the know'. I also think that you could apply that rule to most of the cars in that article too. And I'm not just sticking up for it because my car was in there! 
I love my Charade and it's not even the GTti 
Stew2000 said:
IrrElephant said:
minimatt1967 said:
It's a coupe though.
How is it?
Looks like a hatchback to me.
You can get a Integra hot hatch - a very rare and different beast -the EX16
tali1 said:
Stew2000 said:
IrrElephant said:
minimatt1967 said:
It's a coupe though.
How is it?Looks like a hatchback to me.
You can get a Integra hot hatch - a very rare and different beast -the EX16
IrrElephant said:
tali1 said:
Stew2000 said:
IrrElephant said:
minimatt1967 said:
It's a coupe though.
How is it?Looks like a hatchback to me.
You can get a Integra hot hatch - a very rare and different beast -the EX16
George H said:
I love them, really understated. Almost impossible to find an unmodified example now though 
Yup, cute ittle beast. Friend of mine had one ages ago but that ended in the armco with us having to take the train back home... Super difficult to find unmolested examples, did a quick search on the local websites (Germany) -- some 15 cars on offer in total and just 2 look somewhat close to original, the rest -- totally farked...Something more recent that might qualify as a forgotten hot hatch:
Smart 44 "Brabus", four cylinder turbo Mitsubishi engine with ~ 177 PS + relatively OK chassis. They did not sell a lot of these (must have had something to do with the silly list prices). That and the fact that Mercedes dropped the whole Smart 44 line rather quickly means it's going to be super rare in a few years time.
Kolbenkopp said:
George H said:
I love them, really understated. Almost impossible to find an unmodified example now though
Yup, cute ittle beast. Friend of mine had one ages ago but that ended in the armco with us having to take the train back home... Super difficult to find unmolested examples, did a quick search on the local websites (Germany) -- some 15 cars on offer in total and just 2 look somewhat close to original, the rest -- totally farked...Something more recent that might qualify as a forgotten hot hatch:
Smart 44 "Brabus", four cylinder turbo Mitsubishi engine with ~ 177 PS + relatively OK chassis. They did not sell a lot of these (must have had something to do with the silly list prices). That and the fact that Mercedes dropped the whole Smart 44 line rather quickly means it's going to be super rare in a few years time.
Mr Dave said:
A good ZS is better than a lot of cars, not quite an Integra Type R, but not far off to be honest, if it had a Honda badge instead of a Rover one, there would be many more fan boys. No better FWD cars for the money than the ZR/ZS I reckon.
On that note the primera GT has to be worth a mention. The handling is up there with an ITR for me and I know this because I used to have an ITR. Sure surprised the hell out of me. Nobody seems to know what they are or what they're capable of.TameRacingDriver said:
Mr Dave said:
A good ZS is better than a lot of cars, not quite an Integra Type R, but not far off to be honest, if it had a Honda badge instead of a Rover one, there would be many more fan boys. No better FWD cars for the money than the ZR/ZS I reckon.
On that note the primera GT has to be worth a mention. The handling is up there with an ITR for me and I know this because I used to have an ITR. Sure surprised the hell out of me. Nobody seems to know what they are or what they're capable of.Seats were uncomfortable and the ride (did I mention the ride?) actually made passengers need the toilet.
Worst thing was when I got it, I mentioned I had the BX aswell to a couple of Primera owners on a forum somewhere, who were quick to say how s
te it must be and glad I've seen the light. I didn't hang around to tell them the BX was better in just about every way (except build and refinement, possibly!) once I'd sold the car.I also had a ZS! Same kinda thing regarding the ride, but the car was alot more likable and the cornering was even better. BX has outlived them all though!
Kitchski said:
You're not the only person I've seen speak highly on the Primera, but the GT I had was crap. The cornering ability was pretty good, but then the ride was so firm it had to corner well on smooth roads. The steering was dead, the gearchange wasn't a patch on a Honda or Toyota, and the engine was gutless (although it did make quite a nice 4-pot noise).
Seats were uncomfortable and the ride (did I mention the ride?) actually made passengers need the toilet.
Worst thing was when I got it, I mentioned I had the BX aswell to a couple of Primera owners on a forum somewhere, who were quick to say how ste it must be and glad I've seen the light. I didn't hang around to tell them the BX was better in just about every way (except build and refinement, possibly!) once I'd sold the car.
I also had a ZS! Same kinda thing regarding the ride, but the car was alot more likable and the cornering was even better. BX has outlived them all though!
I do know what you mean about the ride quality - firm is probably under-describing it - its probably the hardest riding car I've had. Now that I've driven it for a while, the cornering ability is among the best I've ever experienced, regardless of driven wheels... it is certainly better than my old Clio 182, the E36 328 Sport and probably even the MR2 Turbo I had. Rarely have I felt so confident in pushing a car as I do this... though maybe not on a really bumpy road!Seats were uncomfortable and the ride (did I mention the ride?) actually made passengers need the toilet.
Worst thing was when I got it, I mentioned I had the BX aswell to a couple of Primera owners on a forum somewhere, who were quick to say how s
te it must be and glad I've seen the light. I didn't hang around to tell them the BX was better in just about every way (except build and refinement, possibly!) once I'd sold the car.I also had a ZS! Same kinda thing regarding the ride, but the car was alot more likable and the cornering was even better. BX has outlived them all though!
Again, agreed, engine is gutless. Has to be driven very hard to get the best from it. I don't mind that though. Certainly not THAT slow if it driven correctly (and I say that after coming from an MR2 Turbo).
I'd disagree the steering on mine felt dead, I think it is pretty reasonable for what it is, and not much different from most stuff I've had give or take.
I've not driven a BX and aren't in the habit of slagging things off unless I have some experience, so it may well be a revelation, who knows, but I have had an Integra DC2R which is regarded as one of the best FWD cars ever and the PGT doesn't disgrace itself against that, particularly in handling where IMO its at least as good! As an all round drivers car, probably not as the engine isn't as good and it doesn't have an LSD or is as light, but hey, I paid £750 for this thing! It is simply a lot of fun to drive hard, yet is cheap to run too.
Oh and I find it one of the more comfortable cars I've had (spine shattering ride not-withstanding).
Kitchski said:
But Integras aren't really unusual, because every man and his dog raves on about them, much like the 205 GTi or RS Turbo.
I think the idea here was to get together a crop of cars that are usually at the back of most people's minds when they think hot hatch (although an Integra is to me too as I'd also class it as a coupe, same as an Alfa GT or a Calibra).
Cars like the Proton GTi/Colt GTi, Charade GTti, Xsara VTS, Focus ST170 even perhaps? No one gives them a second thought, except for those that are 'in the know'. I also think that you could apply that rule to most of the cars in that article too. And I'm not just sticking up for it because my car was in there!
Forgetting about the coupe/hatchback debatefor a moment I'd have to disagree.I think the idea here was to get together a crop of cars that are usually at the back of most people's minds when they think hot hatch (although an Integra is to me too as I'd also class it as a coupe, same as an Alfa GT or a Calibra).
Cars like the Proton GTi/Colt GTi, Charade GTti, Xsara VTS, Focus ST170 even perhaps? No one gives them a second thought, except for those that are 'in the know'. I also think that you could apply that rule to most of the cars in that article too. And I'm not just sticking up for it because my car was in there!
The DC2 was widely acclaimed amongst car enthusiasts, but certainly not "every man and his dog", absolutely not to the extent of the Pug GTi or R5 Turbo (presumed you meant R5?) - even more the case for the DC5, understandably I know considering it never made it to the UK market. My point is that if we're saying the Leon Cupra R was/is forgotten then the Integra DC5 has to be in with a shout as well. And maybe it's my love of all things Ford but I couldn't call the ST170 forgotten either.
Sure it's already been mentioned, and I know people will say it wasn't really "forgotten", but the Fiesta RS Turbo needs a mention. Has to hold the record for the thickest steering wheel ever (can't find a decent photo to back that up)...
Edited by thehype on Tuesday 25th October 08:10
Edited by thehype on Tuesday 25th October 08:13
I recon the EE9 Model Civic VT would qualify as a forgotten hot hatch. Rare as hens teeth now.
Great cars in their day, 150bhp, weighed about the same as a paper bag. Proper go kart handling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZ6ktEIjHU
Great cars in their day, 150bhp, weighed about the same as a paper bag. Proper go kart handling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZ6ktEIjHU
Terzo123 said:
I recon the EE9 Model Civic VT would qualify as a forgotten hot hatch. Rare as hens teeth now.
Great cars in their day, 150bhp, weighed about the same as a paper bag. Proper go kart handling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZ6ktEIjHU
"Rare as hens teeth now." ?Great cars in their day, 150bhp, weighed about the same as a paper bag. Proper go kart handling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZ6ktEIjHU
They were rare and forgotten from day 1 as less than 400 sold in uk
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