RE: Ford reveals 125hp engine - of just 1000cc

[Zwoelf]

GroundEffect said:

Given I work at Dunton in the Powertrain department, I may be privy to more information.

Condescension is hardly called for then is it, as most PHers don't work there.

[lgomgf]

Rabbo said:

lgomgf said:

Now that is something... when I was back in Brazil for last x-mas my father had just purchased a ford Ka, engine 1.0 liter 4 cylinder... power... well, only 69cv...

It used to be 59bhp... and I think Noah had one in the Ark!

I know...but this was a brand new 2010 Ford Ka... amazing isn't it... not really.. but you are right... Noah had one for generating eletricity...

[Codswallop]

Jimbo. said:

Codswallop said:

Sounds good, but why do internal combustion engines always get designed vertically? Would it be difficult if already designing an engine from scratch to make it horizontal (not unlike a boxer unit).

This would not only allow lower bonnetlines, but would also lower COG.

Genuinely interested what the implications are if anyone would care to educate me

Two heads, two valve trains (cams, drive etc), so greater production costs and heavier. A shame as that aside, it's ideal

EDIT: Packaging? With a boxer you either mount it forward to accommodate the gearbox, or have the gearbox intrude rearwards with associated FWD difficulties.

Edited by Jimbo. on Thursday 10th November 11:34

I wasn't thinking of a boxer layout per se, but rather an inline engine designed to fit horizontally rather than vertically...

[GroundEffect]

Zwoelf said:

GroundEffect said:

Given I work at Dunton in the Powertrain department, I may be privy to more information.

Condescension is hardly called for then is it, as most PHers don't work there.

I'm not condescending, I'm just teasing

Just watch this space on Ford powertrains.

[Codswallop]

crofty1984 said:

Look up BMW K-series engine.
It has been done. I can think of a couple of considerations, but nothing that would say you absolutely can't.

So it can be done... I wonder why it hasn't been tried in a car in that case?

[832ark]

125bhp/litre out of a turbo'd motor is hardly new or impressive. Honda were putting out 120bhp/litre out of the NA S2000 and were putting out over 100bhp/litre out of an NA engine in the late 80s.

[braddo]

The future will have an engine like this in a car like an Elise - enough performance to be fun along with extremely low CO2 and fuel consumption.

[theJT]

For some reason this reminds me of the 1.3 units from fords of old. Sure, what everyone _wanted_ in their Capri was a 3 litre 6, but what they actually bought was a small 4 pot. Could see this filling a similar niche as long as it's light enough with a slightly more aggressive turbo arrangement. (Assuming that Ford actually come through with a new small sports car as opposed to doing endless concepts to stop the designers getting bored but never actually building it, which seems depressingly common these days.)

[Jimbo.]

Codswallop said:

I wasn't thinking of a boxer layout per se, but rather an inline engine designed to fit horizontally rather than vertically...

Ah, my mistake, sorry All the "flat" BMW engines I recall (R and K engines) smoked a little (oil burning): I was informed that this was due to oil seeping past the rings. Given it's effect upon emissions, could this explain manufacturers reluctance?

[JRM]

300bhp/ton said:

I'm quite pleased in some ways, as per the ethos of the article.

However is this really that amazing? I agree 125bhp/litre via turbocharging isn't anything new.

Hell an Evo FQ360 easily tops that with 180bhp/litre.

Even the Brabus Roadster with it's 698cc turbo 3 managed 143bhp/litre...... and the stock 80hp Roadster was around 115bhp/litre.

That's what I was thinking, Honda did that 10 years ago and without a turbo charger

[GroundEffect]

832ark said:

125bhp/litre out of a turbo'd motor is hardly new or impressive. Honda were putting out 120bhp/litre out of the NA S2000 and were putting out over 100bhp/litre out of an NA engine in the late 80s.

Were they getting over 50mpg too?

[VeeDub Geezer]

The Spruce goose said:

now 2 together, 250 bhp v6 twin turbo, 35 + mpg, I like the sound of that.

That was my first thought too...

[Jimbo.]

GroundEffect said:

Were they getting over 60mpg too?

Will these figures be observed in the real world, or is it purely an EU targets exercise?

[Zwoelf]

300bhp/ton said:

However is this really that amazing? I agree 125bhp/litre via turbocharging isn't anything new.

Indeed, and the other four cylinder EcoBoost engines that have been around a couple of years now seem to be not that far off; the 2.0 one that as well as its Mondeo application serves as Volvo's current T5 engine and the LR Evoque's Si4 is 240PS.

[ZeeTacoe]

GroundEffect said:

Zwoelf said:

GroundEffect said:

Given I work at Dunton in the Powertrain department, I may be privy to more information.

Condescension is hardly called for then is it, as most PHers don't work there.

I'm not condescending, I'm just teasing

Just watch this space on Ford powertrains.

So does it cheat the offical mpg tests as well as the German manufacturers?

[DanDC5]

All this hybrid stuff is pure gimmick, the future should be making the normal petrol engine more efficient like this....

[scenario8]

I think the criticism that this plant only produces 123 horses (in its most powerful tune) are somewhat missing the point. Afterall if specific power willy waving is the be all and end all we'd all be driving motorbike engined cars. Outside of Westerham types who would seriously want a car needing 6000 revs to gently pull away from the lights? Or would fancy servicing twice a year?

I'm sure the turbo charging greatly aids low to mid range torque while also helping keep fuel consumpition (and the related CO2 numbers) down.

Well done British engineering. Keep it up.

Good news from JLR today, too.

[Mr Gear]

doogz said:

Jimbo. said:

Codswallop said:

I wasn't thinking of a boxer layout per se, but rather an inline engine designed to fit horizontally rather than vertically...

Ah, my mistake, sorry All the "flat" BMW engines I recall (R and K engines) smoked a little (oil burning): I was informed that this was due to oil seeping past the rings. Given it's effect upon emissions, could this explain manufacturers reluctance?

Surely a dry sump set up would solve this? More so if the engine was mounted at a slight angle to the horizonal?

If they can do it for bikes.... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[MagicalTrevor]

Zwoelf said:

125bhp/litre specific output = interesting.

>reads it's turbocharged<

>reverts to indifference<

+1

[Marf]

Meh, my previous car had 160hp from 993cc.