RE: Ford reveals 125hp engine - of just 1000cc

[Codswallop]

Jimbo. said:

Codswallop said:

I wasn't thinking of a boxer layout per se, but rather an inline engine designed to fit horizontally rather than vertically...

Ah, my mistake, sorry All the "flat" BMW engines I recall (R and K engines) smoked a little (oil burning): I was informed that this was due to oil seeping past the rings. Given it's effect upon emissions, could this explain manufacturers reluctance?

Oil seepage. Makes sense that it might be a issue in flat engines.

I guess I'm just bored of all car engines being fundamentally the same since the dawn of time. I want to see some genuine innovation, rather than a dribble of improvements caused only by improved manufacturing techniques and better materials/ tolerances (though those advancements shouldn't be down-played either).

[mackie1]

Why is everyone going on about specific output? This is about a normal engine for normal cars which has good drivability and low fuel consumption (and thus emmisions) without using the devil's fuel.

[43034]

8530 said:

Ford's new 3 cylinder Ecoboost engine video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQH9B9rskhg

It sounds like Riggers on the new classifields vid!!

[thinfourth2]

GroundEffect said:

Given I work at Dunton in the Powertrain department, I may be privvy to more information. Watch this space

How heavy is it and will it fit in a caterham which already use ford engines?

[johnhenry]

in theory would make a decent 1000cc class rally engine!
or a track car for that matter!

[Mr Gear]

mackie1 said:

Why is everyone going on about specific output? This is about a normal engine for normal cars which has good drivability and low fuel consumption (and thus emmisions) without using the devil's fuel.

^This. And it will be even better in a Fiesta or Ka.

[gashead1105]

97BHP version in an MPV? That'll do well to make the end of the warranty period without exploding!

[mat205125]

I hope that it has a junior 911 Turbo roar like the old Daihatsu Charade GTTi used to have

[Chrisw666]

Zwoelf said:

125bhp/litre specific output = interesting.

>reads it's turbocharged<

>reverts to indifference<

I think it is the MPG/CO2 thing that is a driver at the minute, and at least manufacturers appear to be developing technology that gives us (at least from test figures) the MPG of a diesel supermini but with the ability to go as quickly as a proper car with a proper engine. I was very impressed with the Eco-Boost Focus I had averaging 35mpg in Italy when most of my driving was on twisting mountain roads and I acclimatised to the Italian driving style very quickly.

[VeeDub Geezer]

Codswallop said:

Jimbo. said:

Codswallop said:

Sounds good, but why do internal combustion engines always get designed vertically? Would it be difficult if already designing an engine from scratch to make it horizontal (not unlike a boxer unit).

This would not only allow lower bonnetlines, but would also lower COG.

Genuinely interested what the implications are if anyone would care to educate me

Two heads, two valve trains (cams, drive etc), so greater production costs and heavier. A shame as that aside, it's ideal

EDIT: Packaging? With a boxer you either mount it forward to accommodate the gearbox, or have the gearbox intrude rearwards with associated FWD difficulties.

Edited by Jimbo. on Thursday 10th November 11:34

I wasn't thinking of a boxer layout per se, but rather an inline engine designed to fit horizontally rather than vertically...

The last real innovation in inline 4 stroke engine layout was the original A-class

[Oddball RS]

VeeDub Geezer said:

Codswallop said:

Jimbo. said:

Codswallop said:

Sounds good, but why do internal combustion engines always get designed vertically? Would it be difficult if already designing an engine from scratch to make it horizontal (not unlike a boxer unit).

This would not only allow lower bonnetlines, but would also lower COG.

Genuinely interested what the implications are if anyone would care to educate me

Two heads, two valve trains (cams, drive etc), so greater production costs and heavier. A shame as that aside, it's ideal

EDIT: Packaging? With a boxer you either mount it forward to accommodate the gearbox, or have the gearbox intrude rearwards with associated FWD difficulties.

Edited by Jimbo. on Thursday 10th November 11:34

I wasn't thinking of a boxer layout per se, but rather an inline engine designed to fit horizontally rather than vertically...

The last real innovation in inline 4 stroke engine layout was the original A-class

A slant 4? new?

[vrooom]

Just watched the video. no intercooler?
more boost + intercooler. 150hp 1000cc engine?

[300bhp/ton]

gashead1105 said:

97BHP version in an MPV? That'll do well to make the end of the warranty period without exploding!

But PEAK hp isn't really that important unless you are at WOT and high revs all the time.

What a turbo 3 pot can offer over a n.a is a much fatter torque curve and mid range.


e.g.

It's torque that is used to calculate HP:

HP = torque x rpm / 5252


So if at say 3500rpm this engine will make 20 or 30% more torque than a higher PEAK powered n.a. engine, then it'll also be making more HP at those rpms.

[budgie smuggler]

Pretty impressive if it genuinely can get near those MPG figures.

[Janesy B]

Oddball RS said:

A slant 4? new?

Exactly.

[Fire99]

As already said, it's the torque curve that will be the important part. The current 'Super-Mini's ' are pretty portly these days and you won't want to be caning the bottom out of it go make progress.

[thinfourth2]

Janesy B said:

Oddball RS said:

A slant 4? new?

Exactly.

Ah but only A class can into class leading awkwardness of needing to remove the bumper to change the sparkplugs

[300bhp/ton]

vrooom said:

Just watched the video. no intercooler?
more boost + intercooler. 150hp 1000cc engine?

On a serious PH note.....

What are the internals like on this engine? Are Ford going to sell it in a beefy fashion with forged rods and piston?

If so and if the motor is light enough, then I see it making a good conversion motor for many cars.

If it can't handle any increase in boost though, then maybe not.

But consider this, 600-700kg donar vehicle (kit/classic) and this little motor making 180-200bhp/litre?

I know the turbo will affect the throttle response, but still an alternative option.

[daimatt]

The daihatsu charade had a 99bhp 993cc engine in the late 80's, can Ford only get 26bhp extra after 30+ years?

[Wild Rumpus]

johnhenry said:

in theory would make a decent 1000cc class rally engine!
or a track car for that matter!

Except that with forced induction you have to multiply the engine size by 1.7, which would bring you into the 1.6 to 2 litre class, where you would be up against 300bhp cars....