Are modern headlights too bright?
Poll: Are modern headlights too bright?
Total Members Polled: 878
Discussion
Johnnytheboy said:
paralla said:
I always specify auto dimming mirrors when ordering a new car, reading this thread makes me glad that I do.
I've never found them particularly effective (sample size of two in fairness). Works very well on my BMW's, to the point I get annoyed very quickly when driving my Dacia van.
I guess if you have a tiny rear window in a lifestyle (SUV) coupé the sensor in your mirror can't pick up on what's behind either.
EW109 said:
This is spot on. The current wattage rules date from the mid-1980s. HIDs did not appear until the early 1990s. From that point on, manufacturers have produced lights which comply with the letter, but certainly not the spirit, of the regulations.
What is required is regulation based not on wattage but output.
This was discussed earlier in the thread. The standards for lights are based on output, with maximum and minimum allowable lumen values prescibed for various points in the beam pattern. What is required is regulation based not on wattage but output.
The thing is, on a dark unfamiliar and unpopulated road in the middle of nowhere super bright lights are great. I remember times in the 90s driving 70s and 80s cars where full beam was barely enough to see ahead at all.
Maybe we need more than two levels of night drive lighting- dipped, main, super main or something?
Maybe we need more than two levels of night drive lighting- dipped, main, super main or something?
HelldogBE said:
Johnnytheboy said:
paralla said:
I always specify auto dimming mirrors when ordering a new car, reading this thread makes me glad that I do.
I've never found them particularly effective (sample size of two in fairness). Works very well on my BMW's, to the point I get annoyed very quickly when driving my Dacia van.
I guess if you have a tiny rear window in a lifestyle (SUV) coupé the sensor in your mirror can't pick up on what's behind either.
Worked just as well on my BMW E36 built 1998.
As I write 'Are modern headlights too bright?
Yes: 64%
No: 36%
When these things first arrived I would flash offenders. The reply would be high-beam. Now I don't bother. That battle is lost. Llights too bright on dip are here to stay. A very large majority find lights too bright, and whilst the rest of you rattle on about tech, when dip-beam dazzles for the majority the tech doesn't work.
Battle lost, it's an arms-race with no quick solution. I leave my lights on high-beam, and use eBay-grade cheapo over-glasses. I'd say this was socially irresponsible. Then again until govt makes moves to control headlamp power, it's no more belligerent than - against 64% - claiming the tech works.
At one point I thought it was 'just me'. Clearly it's the majority. A quick prod of search-engines, reveals it's a worldwide complaint.
Yes: 64%
No: 36%
When these things first arrived I would flash offenders. The reply would be high-beam. Now I don't bother. That battle is lost. Llights too bright on dip are here to stay. A very large majority find lights too bright, and whilst the rest of you rattle on about tech, when dip-beam dazzles for the majority the tech doesn't work.
Battle lost, it's an arms-race with no quick solution. I leave my lights on high-beam, and use eBay-grade cheapo over-glasses. I'd say this was socially irresponsible. Then again until govt makes moves to control headlamp power, it's no more belligerent than - against 64% - claiming the tech works.
At one point I thought it was 'just me'. Clearly it's the majority. A quick prod of search-engines, reveals it's a worldwide complaint.
Edited by OldDuffer on Tuesday 11th January 18:50
otolith said:
uncinqsix said:
This was discussed earlier in the thread. The standards for lights are based on output, with maximum and minimum allowable lumen values prescibed for various points in the beam pattern.
And the standard is way in excess of what legal incandescent bulbs can deliver. uncinqsix said:
There are different standards for halogen and HID/LED. It's not like they did one standard in the 70s and called it a day. The lumen limits for HID and LED were developed for those technologies, with the idea being they can make use of the extra light output on offer without blinding everyone (hence the much more defined cut offs). Whether they have succeeded is another matter entirely.
Yep, and my position is that it didn’t work and they should have set the limit to what the old tech was limited to delivering. Jambo2000 said:
The thing is, on a dark unfamiliar and unpopulated road in the middle of nowhere super bright lights are great. I remember times in the 90s driving 70s and 80s cars where full beam was barely enough to see ahead at all.
Maybe we need more than two levels of night drive lighting- dipped, main, super main or something?
Link main beam intensity to speed. Maybe we need more than two levels of night drive lighting- dipped, main, super main or something?
Made me laugh someone earlier said he thinks halogen bulbs travel better/further than LED 
the last car I had with halogens was a 2000 BMW 7 series. I've been in many cars with xenons which are SIGNIFICANTLY better. I've been in a few cars with LEDs, they're another level on. Some of the best LEDs I've used were from a 2013 BMW M6, I've also experienced one car with laser lights and they're superb! Anyone who thinks that halogens are as good is misguided in my opinion.
the last car I had with halogens was a 2000 BMW 7 series. I've been in many cars with xenons which are SIGNIFICANTLY better. I've been in a few cars with LEDs, they're another level on. Some of the best LEDs I've used were from a 2013 BMW M6, I've also experienced one car with laser lights and they're superb! Anyone who thinks that halogens are as good is misguided in my opinion. otolith said:
Yep, and my position is that it didn’t work and they should have set the limit to what the old tech was limited to delivering.
I would say it's better to base it on scientific research rather than what a given technology is capable of. The former is what happens in practice when they write these standards, but that still involves making tradeoffs between the driver being able to see hazards more easily vs dazzling other road users. The argument is around where that balance point is set. Looking at the poll results, 2/3rds think the standards setters have got the balance wrong...TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Made me laugh someone earlier said he thinks halogen bulbs travel better/further than LED the last car I had with halogens was a 2000 BMW 7 series. I've been in many cars with xenons which are SIGNIFICANTLY better. I've been in a few cars with LEDs, they're another level on. Some of the best LEDs I've used were from a 2013 BMW M6, I've also experienced one car with laser lights and they're superb! Anyone who thinks that halogens are as good is misguided in my opinion.
I certainly can understand his point. the last car I had with halogens was a 2000 BMW 7 series. I've been in many cars with xenons which are SIGNIFICANTLY better. I've been in a few cars with LEDs, they're another level on. Some of the best LEDs I've used were from a 2013 BMW M6, I've also experienced one car with laser lights and they're superb! Anyone who thinks that halogens are as good is misguided in my opinion. Some Xenons don't seem to do very well on Dark, country roads on full beam.
Great on dipped but you don't get the same output IMO certainly for many mid year cars (2005-2016)
Many new cars do have much better lights especially as a premium upgrade.
CarCrazyDad said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Made me laugh someone earlier said he thinks halogen bulbs travel better/further than LED the last car I had with halogens was a 2000 BMW 7 series. I've been in many cars with xenons which are SIGNIFICANTLY better. I've been in a few cars with LEDs, they're another level on. Some of the best LEDs I've used were from a 2013 BMW M6, I've also experienced one car with laser lights and they're superb! Anyone who thinks that halogens are as good is misguided in my opinion.
I certainly can understand his point. the last car I had with halogens was a 2000 BMW 7 series. I've been in many cars with xenons which are SIGNIFICANTLY better. I've been in a few cars with LEDs, they're another level on. Some of the best LEDs I've used were from a 2013 BMW M6, I've also experienced one car with laser lights and they're superb! Anyone who thinks that halogens are as good is misguided in my opinion. Some Xenons don't seem to do very well on Dark, country roads on full beam.
Great on dipped but you don't get the same output IMO certainly for many mid year cars (2005-2016)
Many new cars do have much better lights especially as a premium upgrade.
You can see the effect of this with street lights which have had old globes replaced with LED's. The area bathed in the light appears brighter but everything else outside it much less so.
CarCrazyDad said:
I certainly can understand his point.
Some Xenons don't seem to do very well on Dark, country roads on full beam.
Great on dipped but you don't get the same output IMO certainly for many mid year cars (2005-2016)
Many new cars do have much better lights especially as a premium upgrade.
On a lot of cars of that era, the high beams were Halogen because of the time it takes for the HIDs to fire up and reach full brightness. Some Xenons don't seem to do very well on Dark, country roads on full beam.
Great on dipped but you don't get the same output IMO certainly for many mid year cars (2005-2016)
Many new cars do have much better lights especially as a premium upgrade.
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