Discussion
Rammy76 said:
I realise what you're getting at but the guy seems to have his heart set on a hot hatch like many others of his age. It's not actually a bad way of getting into performance cars, I did it with my Uno Turbo and used it as a "springboard" onto bigger and better stuff.
Just because of the FWD configeration and hatch design does't mean to say they can't be fun, and in a way probably a bit safer for a novice than a torque laden RWD until more experience and no claims are gained.
I don't deny that. I just question why so many "his age" and others would set their heart on such a car when such choice is available at this budget. £9k is e46 M3 money and not far off 996 C2 Porsche. Just because of the FWD configeration and hatch design does't mean to say they can't be fun, and in a way probably a bit safer for a novice than a torque laden RWD until more experience and no claims are gained.
blackcab said:
I found the ST a good car to drive - it was always designed as a hot hatch and it did that pretty well, handling of the car was good I found - especially on the right tyres !
I did a few "track days" in mine and was surprised just how well it performed against others, the ST is noticably quicker than a GTi golf and sounds superb. - I miss mine
Hot hatch is stretching the term a bit though. The MK II Focus is wider and taller than a Sierra and almost as long. Not too mention the rake of the rear window is more glass roof then conventional hatch back. In fact the rear window is the pefect angle for a saloon rear window, which is why the Focus saloon IMO looks a far more cohesive design. I did a few "track days" in mine and was surprised just how well it performed against others, the ST is noticably quicker than a GTi golf and sounds superb. - I miss mine
v8will said:
Bit of a smart arse aren't you 300?
You could've done better to recommend something like your Smart which for a skint 21 year old would be a better starting point.
No surprise from somebody with 20k posts on a single internet forum tbh...people like him really have nothing better to do the 20k posts alone shows he has nothing better to do with his life thats like 100 posts per week fYou could've done better to recommend something like your Smart which for a skint 21 year old would be a better starting point.
k me get a life.300bhp/ton said:
I don't deny that. I just question why so many "his age" and others would set their heart on such a car when such choice is available at this budget. £9k is e46 M3 money and not far off 996 C2 Porsche.
Remove fuel from the equation and tell me how much more a 996 with lots of expensive parts and well documented history of potentially ruinous failures or E46 M3 with a highly tuned 3.2 straight 6 and lots of M only parts will cost to run than a Focus ST with a very proven tough engine sourced from Volvo and a chassis that is shared with average joes shopping car. I'm not doubting the others are the enthusiasts choice and the better cars in comparison with an ST but one makes 150mph accessible, practical and affordable, the others need a lot of care and attention that only the most focussed 21 year old would give it.
Young men who run specialist cars at the expense of any form of social life and without considering that there is a bit more to life than cars end up starting threads their mum has to have closed. Young men who buy 911s or M3s that they can't really afford ruin cars for the next enthusiast who really wants one and has saved for years to get one.
300bhp/ton said:
I don't deny that. I just question why so many "his age" and others would set their heart on such a car when such choice is available at this budget. £9k is e46 M3 money and not far off 996 C2 Porsche.
Threads regularly come up on the subject of how cheap 996s and M3s are. The general consensus is "yes, they're great value, but you really need to have a few grand tucked away in a savings account to cover major repairs that come up every so often"Hot hatches may be dull in your eyes, but they're (relatively) cheap to service and maintain, and that's what appeals to younger buyers.
Edited by excel monkey on Tuesday 22 November 17:42
10k miles in my old ST2 and I averaged just under 26mpg for the whole 10k miles!! Best I got on a run was 40mpg, over 30mpg easy on motorway at steady speed, although they lack cruise control which isn't great. Mine had Bluefin remap to around 270BHP, which seemed to improve on standard consumption with the big increase in torque.
Nice cars, my old one is for sale on PH at the moment - FFSH, low miles and you could probably get it for close to £6k!
Nice cars, my old one is for sale on PH at the moment - FFSH, low miles and you could probably get it for close to £6k!
I'll give the OP a little advice which he can take either way.
When you're 21 engaging into a finance deal which may take 3 or 4 years to pay off will seem like a lifetime. when you hit 30 you'll wonder where the hell the last 10 years went. So here goes.
Don't bother. Spend a few grand on something cheap and reliable to see you through the next few years. Take the money you would have spent on fuel, insurance and payments on a ST and stick it in the bank. Whenever you feel the need, book a track day or rally day. You know the sort, you show up and get to drive a Ferrari or such like. Once a year or so spend some of that saved money and get to one of many motoring meccas that exist, Le mans, some of the F1 races or you could even do a budget fly/drive adventure that many other posters have done (Stelvio in the Fiat 500?) You could even do something very different, get a few motorbike lessons (you will be hooked) or even a flying lesson or two (I guarantee you will be hooked)
The remainder of the time go out with your mates, party, shag all around you and enjoy being young.
When you are a little bit older and insurance is a little easier and maybe you have some of that saved money or a better paid job then get yourself a proper car, ST if it still appeals or start looking into the world of M3s, AMG Mercs, Caterhams etc.
Unless you are utterly focused or blessed with plenty of cash then buying into a 'big' car at your age is a very life limiting experience IMHO and after a few months (or weeks) you will be bored stupid and stuck with a thirsty car and monthly payments.
When you're 21 engaging into a finance deal which may take 3 or 4 years to pay off will seem like a lifetime. when you hit 30 you'll wonder where the hell the last 10 years went. So here goes.
Don't bother. Spend a few grand on something cheap and reliable to see you through the next few years. Take the money you would have spent on fuel, insurance and payments on a ST and stick it in the bank. Whenever you feel the need, book a track day or rally day. You know the sort, you show up and get to drive a Ferrari or such like. Once a year or so spend some of that saved money and get to one of many motoring meccas that exist, Le mans, some of the F1 races or you could even do a budget fly/drive adventure that many other posters have done (Stelvio in the Fiat 500?) You could even do something very different, get a few motorbike lessons (you will be hooked) or even a flying lesson or two (I guarantee you will be hooked)
The remainder of the time go out with your mates, party, shag all around you and enjoy being young.
When you are a little bit older and insurance is a little easier and maybe you have some of that saved money or a better paid job then get yourself a proper car, ST if it still appeals or start looking into the world of M3s, AMG Mercs, Caterhams etc.
Unless you are utterly focused or blessed with plenty of cash then buying into a 'big' car at your age is a very life limiting experience IMHO and after a few months (or weeks) you will be bored stupid and stuck with a thirsty car and monthly payments.
v8will said:
I'll give the OP a little advice which he can take either way.
When you're 21 engaging into a finance deal which may take 3 or 4 years to pay off will seem like a lifetime. when you hit 30 you'll wonder where the hell the last 10 years went. So here goes.
Don't bother. Spend a few grand on something cheap and reliable to see you through the next few years. Take the money you would have spent on fuel, insurance and payments on a ST and stick it in the bank. Whenever you feel the need, book a track day or rally day. You know the sort, you show up and get to drive a Ferrari or such like. Once a year or so spend some of that saved money and get to one of many motoring meccas that exist, Le mans, some of the F1 races or you could even do a budget fly/drive adventure that many other posters have done (Stelvio in the Fiat 500?) You could even do something very different, get a few motorbike lessons (you will be hooked) or even a flying lesson or two (I guarantee you will be hooked)
The remainder of the time go out with your mates, party, shag all around you and enjoy being young.
When you are a little bit older and insurance is a little easier and maybe you have some of that saved money or a better paid job then get yourself a proper car, ST if it still appeals or start looking into the world of M3s, AMG Mercs, Caterhams etc.
Unless you are utterly focused or blessed with plenty of cash then buying into a 'big' car at your age is a very life limiting experience IMHO and after a few months (or weeks) you will be bored stupid and stuck with a thirsty car and monthly payments.
As much as I am firmly in the it's his money he can do what he likes camp when it comes to finance I can add a hearty +1 to the above post. When you're 21 engaging into a finance deal which may take 3 or 4 years to pay off will seem like a lifetime. when you hit 30 you'll wonder where the hell the last 10 years went. So here goes.
Don't bother. Spend a few grand on something cheap and reliable to see you through the next few years. Take the money you would have spent on fuel, insurance and payments on a ST and stick it in the bank. Whenever you feel the need, book a track day or rally day. You know the sort, you show up and get to drive a Ferrari or such like. Once a year or so spend some of that saved money and get to one of many motoring meccas that exist, Le mans, some of the F1 races or you could even do a budget fly/drive adventure that many other posters have done (Stelvio in the Fiat 500?) You could even do something very different, get a few motorbike lessons (you will be hooked) or even a flying lesson or two (I guarantee you will be hooked)
The remainder of the time go out with your mates, party, shag all around you and enjoy being young.
When you are a little bit older and insurance is a little easier and maybe you have some of that saved money or a better paid job then get yourself a proper car, ST if it still appeals or start looking into the world of M3s, AMG Mercs, Caterhams etc.
Unless you are utterly focused or blessed with plenty of cash then buying into a 'big' car at your age is a very life limiting experience IMHO and after a few months (or weeks) you will be bored stupid and stuck with a thirsty car and monthly payments.
I did finance and got burned, I also did spending a huge chunk (for me) of cash I had saved when things were very good (twice) on cars. Now I know in my early 30s that while I had some mega house buying luck had I been more sensible with car buying and ran some older metal I'd have had more interesting cars in my life and probably something a bit more interesting now.
v8will said:
Bit of a smart arse aren't you 300?
If it makes you feel better, then sure why not. 
v8will said:
You could've done better to recommend something like your Smart which for a skint 21 year old would be a better starting point.
smart arse mode....If you note, I actually "quoted" Funk and my comments where directed at them, while offering a tong in cheek angle for the op to consider.
If you look 3 posts further down from your first quote of me, you'll see I did indeed suggest some other motors. The first 3 all a lot more economical and the 4th one not only better on fuel, faster and could be bought without finance.
I'm going to have a look into some of the cars listed (realistic ones lol).
I love motors, have done as long as I remember. Thought about what you's have said and kind of put off finance.
I've just been dropped off home in a Type R EP3, felt pretty decent for not having much torque!
Looked at the MPS as said before. The new one's are smart, older shape I think are boring IMO. New shape is way over my budget.
A Scooby is 2500-3k insurance, not sure why it's a massive difference but I don't fancy that lol.
Cheers again.
I love motors, have done as long as I remember. Thought about what you's have said and kind of put off finance.
I've just been dropped off home in a Type R EP3, felt pretty decent for not having much torque!
Looked at the MPS as said before. The new one's are smart, older shape I think are boring IMO. New shape is way over my budget.
A Scooby is 2500-3k insurance, not sure why it's a massive difference but I don't fancy that lol.
Cheers again.
Biker's Nemesis said:
Does anyone know of a Focus LPG conversion?
I have to ask, why is the ST so poor on fuel?
Most seem to be either company funded or ran as very low mileage cars by people who are too young to care. I have 2 mates who run them and neither do more than 100 miles a week. I have to ask, why is the ST so poor on fuel?
As far as I know the basic design of the engine is fairly dated and was a lower powered lump in the Volvo application (I may be wrong on this).
Cheers for the replies, I've driven my mates 06 ST and really liked it, he doesn't do many miles in it during the week because of the fuel consumption.
It's a shame they don't take to a LPG conversion because if they did I'd have one in the bright Orange colour.
Whats the new ST3 like?
It's a shame they don't take to a LPG conversion because if they did I'd have one in the bright Orange colour.
Whats the new ST3 like?
Chrisw666 said:
Remove fuel from the equation
You could do this, but I think it's better to include it, or else you are only hiding costs and artificially making it look lower.Chrisw666 said:
and tell me how much more a 996 with lots of expensive parts and well documented history of potentially ruinous failures or E46 M3 with a highly tuned 3.2 straight 6 and lots of M only parts will cost to run than a Focus ST with a very proven tough engine sourced from Volvo and a chassis that is shared with average joes shopping car.
I suspect you are being overly critical of the durability of running such machines. But in order to make this meaningful you need to also factor in depreciation.Most finance is 3-5 years, a £9k Focus will be worth a pittance in 5 years time, while I suspect a 996 will retain most of it's current value.
Yes there is a risk, but if I'm honest I only mentioned the cars more in jest and to highlight what 'non'-hatchback alternatives could be bought for that money should you want to.
Chrisw666 said:
I'm not doubting the others are the enthusiasts choice and the better cars in comparison with an ST but one makes 150mph accessible, practical and affordable, the others need a lot of care and attention that only the most focussed 21 year old would give it.
Pun You sure they'd truly need that much more attention? Replacing engines isn't a service item and replacing a worn shock on a Focus is no easier than doing it to the Porsche or BMW.
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