RE: PH Carpool: Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Discussion
St John Smythe said:
I imagine the M3 is more of a driver's car due to the fact you have to drive one at 9/10s to really extract the performance.
St John Smythe said:
The Camaro is more instant grunt
I don't understand why you think a car that you have to thrash to get any performace from, is better than one with instant grunt. 
St John Smythe said:
Can anyone explain the differences between the earlier LT1 Z28s and the later ones? Is the performance roughly the same?
Largely they are the same car, same basic platform and many shared or 'similar' components.Main differences are:
-front panel and headlights. Much more pointy looking on the 93-97 LT1 models. This is true for Firebirds and Camaros.
-Rims
-Interior. The dash is different in some places, shape of vents and basic layout plus other interior differences
-Brakes and rear axle, I believe both of these are different
-Engine. The LT1 engine is cast iron and in reality very much the same engine as used in the 1960's, although heavily revised with multipoint EFI and so on. The LS1 however was a clean sheet design launched in 1997 and shares nothing with the LT1 apart from being a OHV V8. The displacements aren't even the same. The LT1 is 350 cubic inches, while the LS1 is smaller at 346 cubic inches.
-ECU setup is totally different too. I think the LT1 is OBD1 while the LS1 is OBD2.
I'm sure there are many other differences too, probably a few chassis and suspension tweaks as is normal when doing these kinds of changes to a model.
Performance wise. The LT1 was launched with 275 rated bhp SAE Net and in 97 increased to 285 rated bhp SAE Net.
Over the years there where SLP and WS6 high performance versions and the Firehawk which used an LT4 enigne.
The C4 Corvette also used the LT1 engine rated at 300hp and the LT4 rated at 330hp.
It is likely that GM played a similar game with the Fbody's during 93-97, so they may have made more HP than claimed.
Although I suspect this is likely on latter examples more so than early ones. Performance stats that I've seen for the LT1's are good but do seem to vary, I've put this down to them being older and more ropey ones being about.
But as a norm 5.5 - 5.8 sec 0-60mph and around 14.2 to 14.5 1/4 miles times at around 97-100mph and a top speed of 150mph+
Axe Murderer said:
St John Smythe said:
I imagine the M3 is more of a driver's car due to the fact you have to drive one at 9/10s to really extract the performance.
St John Smythe said:
The Camaro is more instant grunt
I don't understand why you think a car that you have to thrash to get any performace from, is better than one with instant grunt. I actually quite like these, and I've only ever seen one in person, red with a targa top, 2 white stripes running over the bonnet and NACA duct on the bonnet, it looked and sounded ace - critically, it seemed to have been given slightly bigger wheels and lowered a bit, as it did not have the large panel gaps as 300s does.
Sure, some people will say they are wallowy, too long, cheap inside, low output for the engine size etc, but that is missing the point. For a car that you can rumble about in, not blowing the speed limits away and making a glorious noise, I think they are a great choice.
Sure, some people will say they are wallowy, too long, cheap inside, low output for the engine size etc, but that is missing the point. For a car that you can rumble about in, not blowing the speed limits away and making a glorious noise, I think they are a great choice.
Mastodon2 said:
I actually quite like these, and I've only ever seen one in person, red with a targa top, 2 white stripes running over the bonnet and NACA duct on the bonnet, it looked and sounded ace - critically, it seemed to have been given slightly bigger wheels and lowered a bit, as it did not have the large panel gaps as 300s does.
Sounds like the 35th Anniversary Edition.
let's not forget the equivalent Trans Am, the same car in essence. Looks designed to polarise views even more:
LuS1fer said:
Sounds like the 35th Anniversary Edition.
let's not forget the equivalent Trans Am, the same car in essence. Looks designed to polarise views even more:
Thats it! I'm just looking it up now, seems like they only made something like 3157 of these, 3000 for the US and 157 for Canada or something. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the only 35th anniversary edition in the UK, I love it!let's not forget the equivalent Trans Am, the same car in essence. Looks designed to polarise views even more:
St John Smythe said:
I never said I did?
It came across that way when you said:St John Smythe said:
I imagine the M3 is more of a driver's car due to the fact you have to drive one at 9/10s to really extract the performance.
Even more so, when you followed up with:
St John Smythe said:
M3 all day!
Mastodon2 said:
Thats it! I'm just looking it up now, seems like they only made something like 3157 of these, 3000 for the US and 157 for Canada or something. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the only 35th anniversary edition in the UK, I love it!
Very likely, or at least not many. The 35th was based on a Camaro SS, which still had the bonnet scoop and the 17" wheels and different suspension. The 35th was really unique styling in terms of the stripes and some interior touches and a plaque.
Henrico said:
I love those WS6s but not many come up in the UK. How much are you looking for a nicish one over here??
The Pontiacs are all imports and rarer (though in truth they're both rare now)so command higher prices. The WS6 is the equivalent of the Camaro SS and recognisable by the 4 nostril vents as opposed to the two of the Trans Am.Henrico said:
I love those WS6s but not many come up in the UK. How much are you looking for a nicish one over here??
Oddly Firebirds and Trans Am's, despite being the same car tend to sell for more money. I'd expect an LS1 WS6 to set you back £9-11k while a z28 is more likely to be £5-7k.
Axe Murderer said:
St John Smythe said:
I never said I did?
It came across that way when you said:St John Smythe said:
I imagine the M3 is more of a driver's car due to the fact you have to drive one at 9/10s to really extract the performance.
Even more so, when you followed up with:
St John Smythe said:
M3 all day!
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
Can anyone explain the differences between the earlier LT1 Z28s and the later ones? Is the performance roughly the same?
Largely they are the same car, same basic platform and many shared or 'similar' components.Main differences are:
-front panel and headlights. Much more pointy looking on the 93-97 LT1 models. This is true for Firebirds and Camaros.
-Rims
-Interior. The dash is different in some places, shape of vents and basic layout plus other interior differences
-Brakes and rear axle, I believe both of these are different
-Engine. The LT1 engine is cast iron and in reality very much the same engine as used in the 1960's, although heavily revised with multipoint EFI and so on. The LS1 however was a clean sheet design launched in 1997 and shares nothing with the LT1 apart from being a OHV V8. The displacements aren't even the same. The LT1 is 350 cubic inches, while the LS1 is smaller at 346 cubic inches.
-ECU setup is totally different too. I think the LT1 is OBD1 while the LS1 is OBD2.
I'm sure there are many other differences too, probably a few chassis and suspension tweaks as is normal when doing these kinds of changes to a model.
Performance wise. The LT1 was launched with 275 rated bhp SAE Net and in 97 increased to 285 rated bhp SAE Net.
Over the years there where SLP and WS6 high performance versions and the Firehawk which used an LT4 enigne.
The C4 Corvette also used the LT1 engine rated at 300hp and the LT4 rated at 330hp.
It is likely that GM played a similar game with the Fbody's during 93-97, so they may have made more HP than claimed.
Although I suspect this is likely on latter examples more so than early ones. Performance stats that I've seen for the LT1's are good but do seem to vary, I've put this down to them being older and more ropey ones being about.
But as a norm 5.5 - 5.8 sec 0-60mph and around 14.2 to 14.5 1/4 miles times at around 97-100mph and a top speed of 150mph+
Just seen a '98 on the R Mustang on ebay, 4.6 GT with a manual box for £3900 been around a while so I imagine that £3500 or maybe less would buy it, however my question is about the lump. Obviously it doesn't compare with an LS1 at all. I just wondered if anyone here knows if they are much good from a performance point of view? Just curious as it's not the dearest thing in the world and a manual box helps........
Is it the same lump that is in the MG ZT260 ?
Is it the same lump that is in the MG ZT260 ?
sparkster8 said:
Just seen a '98 on the R Mustang on ebay, 4.6 GT with a manual box for £3900 been around a while so I imagine that £3500 or maybe less would buy it, however my question is about the lump. Obviously it doesn't compare with an LS1 at all. I just wondered if anyone here knows if they are much good from a performance point of view? Just curious as it's not the dearest thing in the world and a manual box helps........
Is it the same lump that is in the MG ZT260 ?
A manual Mustang in the UK is rare find and certainly worth considering IMO.Is it the same lump that is in the MG ZT260 ?
A 98 Mustang is the sn95 body styling, but I think pre-new age. As in it's rounded on the edges rather than sharp looking. I also think it's pre PI (Performance Improvement).
Essentially it's the same engine as the ZT260, but the pre PI lumps only made 225hp, have different heads, ECU, intake manifold and some other changes.
Performance was ok from them, but a different league completely from a 1998 Fbody. 0-60mph was quite respectable, as the Mustang tends to launch quite well, but nowhere near the pace once moving.
Mod wise, sadly the SOHC 2v 4.6 isn't that mod friendly, especially in non PI format. You can get them to 300-330hp n/a but they take quite a bit of work and money (bolt on's, heads and cams). Most guys in the States opt for supercharging, where the stock internals are usually good for about 450hp. But a supercharger kit is pricey and arguably not worth it on a £3.5k car.
That said, I think only you can say if it's worth considering as a car or not, and you can only do this by driving it and seeing what you think.
sparkster8 said:
Or should I go and get another TR7 V8 as they are pretty cheap and great fun - plus I know my way round them having owned a few......
Bang for buck wise a good TR7 V8 is hard to better in raw value. But they are quite different. A sn95 Mustang will feel a fair bit bigger, more GT like and more comfy. Something a lot easier to live with, plus you get usable rear seats too in the Stang.LSD, strong axle and gearbox would make the Stang more robust though and you could always say sod it, slap an exhaust and CAI on it and a 150 shot of nitrous. It'd move pretty well all things considered and would still likely last.
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