RE: PH Carpool: Chevrolet Camaro Z28

[sparkster8]

Hi Matt,

thanks for that (I should've known that I could count on your plenty of knowledge on this !) and yep you are right its the more rounded shape which I am not a lover of. I think the LS1 Camaro is the way forward to be honest - your car has opened my eyes. I knew they had a bit of puff but not that much !

The search goes on !!

[Axe Murderer]

sparkster8 said:

I think the LS1 Camaro is the way forward to be honest. I knew they had a bit of puff but not that much !

The search goes on !!

If I may add, the wait is definitely worth it. I got a 2002 Camaro SS in the summer - after a six year search (I was being quite particular). I was on the lookout for a Z28, it was a real bonus that an SS became available at the same time I was looking.

[LuS1fer]

sparkster8 said:

Just seen a '98 on the R Mustang on ebay, 4.6 GT with a manual box for £3900 been around a while so I imagine that £3500 or maybe less would buy it, however my question is about the lump. Obviously it doesn't compare with an LS1 at all. I just wondered if anyone here knows if they are much good from a performance point of view? Just curious as it's not the dearest thing in the world and a manual box helps........

Is it the same lump that is in the MG ZT260 ?

The GT made about 215hp. It's not really a performer and the later V6s made nearly as much. The Cobra made 305hp and is the one to look for though early ones didn't make the full herd of 305 horses even though Ford put out a major recall to get them re-shoed. The Cobra did get IRS though (albeit nothing to write home about).

Ford have always tried to keep up with the Camaro in terms of performance but failed until 2002 when they brought out the 390hp supercharged Terminator just as the F-Body kissed the world goodbye.

The thing the Mustang has over the F-Body is compactness in size - it's the only reason it could ever have outsold the combined F-Bodies 2 to 1. Even the Cobra DOHC engine is massive, physically, by LS1 standards though both cars weigh about the same.

Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 28th November 21:58

[sparkster8]

Thanks for that - the Mustang is now out of the running as frankly there is no comparison !!

[300bhp/ton]

LuS1fer said:

sparkster8 said:

Just seen a '98 on the R Mustang on ebay, 4.6 GT with a manual box for £3900 been around a while so I imagine that £3500 or maybe less would buy it, however my question is about the lump. Obviously it doesn't compare with an LS1 at all. I just wondered if anyone here knows if they are much good from a performance point of view? Just curious as it's not the dearest thing in the world and a manual box helps........

Is it the same lump that is in the MG ZT260 ?

The GT made about 215hp. It's not really a performer and the later V6s made nearly as much. The Cobra made 305hp and is the one to look for though early ones didn't make the full herd of 305 horses even though Ford put out a major recall to get them re-shoed. The Cobra did get IRS though (albeit nothing to write home about).

Ford have always tried to keep up with the Camaro in terms of performance but failed until 2002 when they brought out the 390hp supercharged Terminator just as the F-Body kissed the world goodbye.

The thing the Mustang has over the F-Body is compactness in size - it's the only reason it could ever have outsold the combined F-Bodies 2 to 1. Even the Cobra DOHC engine is massive, physically, by LS1 standards though both cars weigh about the same.

Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 28th November 21:58

Some additional info:


1994-95 Cobra
These used the old OHV 5.0 litre V8 engine, as did the GT's of this period. Power was boosted to 240hp and used a 5 speeder manual and live rear axle.

1996-98 Cobra
These used the DOHC 4.6 V8 and made 305hp, these where not the ones recalled by Ford, they did make 305hp. These were also live rear axle and used a 5 speed box.

1999 Cobra
This was the first of the "new age" sharper styling Cobra's. It also used the 4.6 DOHC engine, now rated at 320hp. A 5 speed manual remained, but the biggest change was a move to IRS at the back. This is the year Ford recalled the Cobra due to not making the claimed power output, very big story in the day. Although Ford did rectify the issue with a host of new engine parts. If you are buying in the UK, then the recall won't have been valid if it was here when new, so make sure the works been done or haggle hard.

2000
There was no Cobra this year, mainly due to the issues of the previous year. I think there might have been an ultra limited edition Cobra R, but not a proper production model.

2001 Cobra
This is largely the same spec as the 1999 model, 4.6 DOHC V8, 320hp, but a real 320 this time, IRS. There where some minor changes and it gained the 6 speed gearbox.

2002 Cobra
Only about 100 RHD ones made for the Australian market, very little is know about them in the wider market and very very rare. I think based on the 2001 spec.

2003-2004 Cobra
Dubbed and known as the Terminator, this was the last of the sn95 Cobra's and easily the best. 6 speed manual, IRS and the addition of a Roots M112R supercharger.


I believe most, if not all of the Cobra 4.6's used the aluminium block variant of the engine, certainly 1999-2001 but I'm not sure of the 96-98 models. The supercharged 2003/4 used a cast iron block engine.


The other notable sn95 Mustang models to keep an eye out for is the Mach 1.

2003-2004 Mach 1
This used an aluminium 305hp DOHC 4.6 V8 but retained a live axle with a 5 speed manual. Similar spec to the 96-98 Cobra's, although this latter engine is more torquey low down. Styling wise the Mach 1 had a function "shaker" scoop on the bonnet. A 4 speed auto was an option, but engine is slightly different and I think down on power.

Bullitt
This is essentially just a standard GT model with a different throttle body, hood scoop and some styling changes. Made 265hp with a 5 speeder or optional auto and a live rear axle.



GT history:

94-95 GT
First of the sn95 vehicles. 5 speed or auto, live rear with the old OHV 5.0 engine, although with a newer ECU than the previous model. Only 215hp and despite this engines legendary status, it wasn't that easily tunable in this vehicle and the sn95 weighed more than the previous model so performance was blunted. The manual could still do 0-60mph in 6.6 sec and run 15 sec 1/4 miles and 135+mph top speed. So sort of not far off a stock Focus ST. But not anywhere near as quick as some alternatives.

1996 GT
Basically the same car as the 94/95 but now with a 215hp 4.6 SOHC V8 (cast iron block). Very similar performance or slightly worse maybe.

1997-98 GT
Power increased to 225hp. Not a slow car, even today, but way off the pace compared to the power the Fbody's where making at the time.

1999-2004
New age styling introduced which remained until the models end. Although some variances occurred over the years. Same 5 speed manual and 4 speed auto options and same live rear axle. The major change was the 260hp PI 4.6 SOHC variant of the engine (same engine as in a MG ZT 260). Performance improved to 5.5 sec 0-60mph and 140mph+




The Mustangs are capable cars and I think you need to drive one to fully rule it out, but in terms of raw acceleration they have always (bar the Terminator) been behind the Trans Am/Camaro's. Also oddly Mustang's seem to fetch more money in the UK for some reason, so a 1999 Mustang GT maybe be a couple of grand more to buy than a same year Camaro. Cobra's on the other hand often don't fetch any more money than GT's do. So if you want a Stang finding a Cobra's is probably worth it and not a bad alternative to an Fbody performance wise.

Mustang auto's aren't great though, not sure why. The GM ones are tolerable, even quite good, but I've never heard anything good about the Ford AOD and they always seem to take a bigger performance hit too.