Insurance, and proving no claims

[jimnicebutdim]

Mrs Jim has just bought herself a lovely little Ka. This is the first car she's owned since moving back to the UK last year.
Now, she had 5 years no claims in Spain, but has been informed that the company she used has gone bust.

How would she go about proving her no-claims to her new insurers?

Cheers folks

[jimnicebutdim]

Anyone got any advice?

[krisdelta]

jimnicebutdim said:

Mrs Jim has just bought herself a lovely little Ka. This is the first car she's owned since moving back to the UK last year.
Now, she had 5 years no claims in Spain, but has been informed that the company she used has gone bust.

How would she go about proving her no-claims to her new insurers?

Cheers folks

Hi Jim, you'll often find that many companies will simply offer a discount based on this experience. Proving will be difficult because as you say - the company has gone bust. Speak to a couple of proper brokers (like Aon and Flux) and you should get a sensible response.

[maxdb]

I doubt anyone would let her use her Spanish NCB in the UK.

[Steffan]

maxdb said:

I doubt anyone would let her use her Spanish NCB in the UK.

My view entirely. Certainly without written confirmation. If the OP succeeds I will be very interested to hear how. I cannot see a UK company accepting this knowingly. Maybe the OP will get lucky.

[U T]

I think Insurers are now legally obligated to accept EU bonus. Certainly Aviva accept it. I could be wrong but under freedom of movement with the EU regs I think they have to.

But if you can't get proof, then you've had it I suspect.

[Steffan]

U T said:

I think Insurers are now legally obligated to accept EU bonus. Certainly Aviva accept it. I could be wrong but under freedom of movement with the EU regs I think they have to.

But if you can't get proof, then you've had it I suspect.

I did wonder it this might be the case but without confirmation I see no hope.

[sjg]

You presumably have some paperwork from the last renewal that will summarise NCB - why not use that?

[Tyrion]

U T said:

I think Insurers are now legally obligated to accept EU bonus. Certainly Aviva accept it. I could be wrong but under freedom of movement with the EU regs I think they have to.

But if you can't get proof, then you've had it I suspect.

That is not correct at all - foreign NCB has zero to do with freedom of movement in the EU. They have no legal obligation to count it at all - in fact they could even penalise you for it if they liked.

[U T]

OK, freedom of movement is probably the wrong legislation, not my specialist field.

But, I'm sure there is some legislation that prevents discrimination within Europe. So if an insurance company didn't accept UK bonus, then they would be free to reject EU bonus. But they can't accept UK bonus and not accept EU bonus on the same terms.

In the same way I didn't think they could charge extra for a Spanish or French or other EU licence holder. Or charge less for a UK licence holder.

My work fleet insurance used to be any driver over 25 with a full UK licence 2+ yrs. Then it changed to full EU licence 2+ yrs.

EU licence holders no longer have to get a UK licence once they've lived here a year. They can drive on their EU licence until aged 70 when it expires. Same for us if we move to Spain or whatever.

But I could be totally wrong. It as been known

[Tyrion]

U T said:

OK, freedom of movement is probably the wrong legislation, not my specialist field.

But, I'm sure there is some legislation that prevents discrimination within Europe. So if an insurance company didn't accept UK bonus, then they would be free to reject EU bonus. But they can't accept UK bonus and not accept EU bonus on the same terms.

In the same way I didn't think they could charge extra for a Spanish or French or other EU licence holder. Or charge less for a UK licence holder.

My work fleet insurance used to be any driver over 25 with a full UK licence 2+ yrs. Then it changed to full EU licence 2+ yrs.

EU licence holders no longer have to get a UK licence once they've lived here a year. They can drive on their EU licence until aged 70 when it expires. Same for us if we move to Spain or whatever.

But I could be totally wrong. It as been known

You're completely wrong. By that reasoning that you are using, they also couldn't discriminate against people for being young or male - clearly that isn't the case.

[U T]

Tyrion said:

U T said:

OK, freedom of movement is probably the wrong legislation, not my specialist field.

But, I'm sure there is some legislation that prevents discrimination within Europe. So if an insurance company didn't accept UK bonus, then they would be free to reject EU bonus. But they can't accept UK bonus and not accept EU bonus on the same terms.

In the same way I didn't think they could charge extra for a Spanish or French or other EU licence holder. Or charge less for a UK licence holder.

My work fleet insurance used to be any driver over 25 with a full UK licence 2+ yrs. Then it changed to full EU licence 2+ yrs.

EU licence holders no longer have to get a UK licence once they've lived here a year. They can drive on their EU licence until aged 70 when it expires. Same for us if we move to Spain or whatever.

But I could be totally wrong. It as been known

You're completely wrong. By that reasoning that you are using, they also couldn't discriminate against people for being young or male - clearly that isn't the case.

As from December 2012 they won't be able to discriminate against being male. EU rules!!!
They can discriminate on age , because age discrimination laws are very limited, and the legislation allows discrimination on grounds of age in loads of cases, including insurance.

But as I said, I admit I might be wrong. But you haven't convinced me by quoting rules on age/sex.

[Tyrion]

Don't expect insurance for males to be subsidised by your female friends from next year - it won't happen.

[U T]

Tyrion said:

Don't expect insurance for males to be subsidised by your female friends from next year - it won't happen.

What will happen then? And if they can legislate to do away with sex discrimination, why can't they legislate to stop discimination on grounds of nationality within the EU?

[Tyrion]

I think the current 5 year period they have to change it will be extended out past 2012 then at some point cancelled altogether. I think any reasonable person can understand that its a fair way to price insurance policies.

Or the insurance companies might allow it to go through then screw everyone on the prices... the only real winners will be gays and single men. Normal couples will end up paying more than they did before the changes.

[U T]

Tyrion said:

I think the current 5 year period they have to change it will be extended out past 2012 then at some point cancelled altogether. I think any reasonable person can understand that its a fair way to price insurance policies.

Or the insurance companies might allow it to go through then screw everyone on the prices... the only real winners will be gays and single men. Normal couples will end up paying more than they did before the changes.

I cpompletely agree that gender is a legitimate factor in rating insurance, and the EU have it wrong with this legislation. But come Dec 2012 insurers will stop using gender as rating factor. It will happen. That will mean higher rates for women and lower rates for men. So they equalise. The difference will be most noticable with young drivers.

Of course for some financial products, like pension annuities, women will benefit at the expense of men.

[Tyrion]

I think its naive to assume they will equalise (assuming it comes in at all). I think its more likely that an average family with equal numbers of males and females finds themselves suddenly paying 10 or 20% more...

[U T]

Tyrion said:

I think its naive to assume they will equalise (assuming it comes in at all). I think its more likely that an average family with equal numbers of males and females finds themselves suddenly paying 10 or 20% more...

The free market won't allow that.

Take twins, both 17, one male and one female. He pays £2K for his car, she pays £1200 for an identical car. Live at the same house, both students. Insurers are getting £3200 in total, at which price they think they can make a profit. If they just hike the girl's cover up to £2K (whatever they do, they must charge them both the same,) then they are now getting £4K.

Another insurer will look at it and say "we'll do it for £1800 each". They are then getting £3600 for the pair, still enough to make a profit. So the first insurer ends up doing it for £1600 each, still getting £3200 and still making a profit if they got the sdums right.

It won't work exactly like that, but basically market forces combined with the new regs will mean a drop on male rates and an increase in female to compensate.

[Tyrion]

... until the price fixing starts and they start gouging their customers for 15%. The males are happy as they're getting it cheaper. The woman are pissed off but put it down to the new laws.

There is no way consumers in general come out ahead here. You might be able to find lots of specific people who do, or general groups who do, but as a whole they're going to get shafted imo.

I honestly don't see it going through anyway. If it does I guess I might come out slightly ahead - but only because of the extreme difference in value of the car I'm about to buy, and the runaround my girlfriend will be using (but I'll be paying for).

[Pints]

The only insurer I found to accept foreign NCB - from SA - was Norwich (or Aviva, as they're now known).
They required written confirmation, but even then would only match 2 years.

That probably doesn't help the OP though. Not sure how he'd get written anything from a company that no longer exists.