Which barge for the beginner?
Discussion
Evening all,
Over this past weekend I've been looking at buying a new house, which would totally change my daily commute to work. It would be longer in terms of miles and mainly dual carriageway. As a result, I suspect it would not be the place to get the most enjoyment out of my MR2 Turbo, which currently enjoys a nice drive to work through suburban roads with plenty of NSL sections and roundabouts thrown in. As a result, it performs beautiful and whilst it's no slouch on the motorway, it doesn't strike me as the ideal car to own for motorway commuting.
I've been considering a nice luxo-barge, something which has always been on my 'to own' list. I've previously owned a Volvo S60, which was a lovely car. Great comfort and refinement, if a little 'spartan'. I'm wondering where I'd be best off starting a career of barging. I'd spend no more than £3000 on the car, less if possible.
I've looked into the obvious BMW 728i and 735 models. These seem quite nice, though a lot of their selling points seem to be outdated systems like dvd based sat navs, defunct Trafficmaster systems and TV sets. I expect they would offer the best drive when pushed hard, being a BMW. Will it waft in dreamy comfort too? Are the nikasil problems with the V8's still an issue, or have most of the affected cars come and gone now?
Another strong contender seems to be the Lexus LS400. Being a Toyota owner, I would be more than happy to step into one of these cars, as I consider my MR2 Turbo to be quite the masterstroke of engineering so I expect their attempt at making a Japanese S Class would be worth my time! It doesn't seem like there is much to go wrong with these, but will that V8 under the hood be excessively thirsty? I'm quite happy getting about 20mpg from my MR2 but I wouldn't like to be looking at spending much more on 98RON than I do already. Are they much fun to drive, and do they waft with refinement?
And finally, my eye has been drawn to the Audi A8. These seem fairly rare, but they strike me as about the only Audi I'd want to own. I have heard bad things on here and from friends who have owned them about catastophic costs when the gearboxes fail. Is this a common fault? Would I be mad for buying one? Can they stand up to the strong competition from Lexus and BMW? Would the Audi offer anything more than the seemingly less risky competition?
I've considered the Mercedes S Class and decided not to look any further into it. Whilst they look beautiful, the ones in my price range are all showing rusted rear arches and I don't want an older model either. I'm not interested in a Volvo S80 because I've had an S60 and the S80 never impressed me a great deal. I'm not looking at Jaguar either, as much as I like them they are a 'country club' for my use. I want something refined and elegant, something you might see a despot dictator from sub-Saharan Africa driving in (aside from the obvious old Mercedes!).
I thought best to leave this here for easy reference rather than clog the Smoker Barges thread with it.
Over this past weekend I've been looking at buying a new house, which would totally change my daily commute to work. It would be longer in terms of miles and mainly dual carriageway. As a result, I suspect it would not be the place to get the most enjoyment out of my MR2 Turbo, which currently enjoys a nice drive to work through suburban roads with plenty of NSL sections and roundabouts thrown in. As a result, it performs beautiful and whilst it's no slouch on the motorway, it doesn't strike me as the ideal car to own for motorway commuting.
I've been considering a nice luxo-barge, something which has always been on my 'to own' list. I've previously owned a Volvo S60, which was a lovely car. Great comfort and refinement, if a little 'spartan'. I'm wondering where I'd be best off starting a career of barging. I'd spend no more than £3000 on the car, less if possible.
I've looked into the obvious BMW 728i and 735 models. These seem quite nice, though a lot of their selling points seem to be outdated systems like dvd based sat navs, defunct Trafficmaster systems and TV sets. I expect they would offer the best drive when pushed hard, being a BMW. Will it waft in dreamy comfort too? Are the nikasil problems with the V8's still an issue, or have most of the affected cars come and gone now?
Another strong contender seems to be the Lexus LS400. Being a Toyota owner, I would be more than happy to step into one of these cars, as I consider my MR2 Turbo to be quite the masterstroke of engineering so I expect their attempt at making a Japanese S Class would be worth my time! It doesn't seem like there is much to go wrong with these, but will that V8 under the hood be excessively thirsty? I'm quite happy getting about 20mpg from my MR2 but I wouldn't like to be looking at spending much more on 98RON than I do already. Are they much fun to drive, and do they waft with refinement?
And finally, my eye has been drawn to the Audi A8. These seem fairly rare, but they strike me as about the only Audi I'd want to own. I have heard bad things on here and from friends who have owned them about catastophic costs when the gearboxes fail. Is this a common fault? Would I be mad for buying one? Can they stand up to the strong competition from Lexus and BMW? Would the Audi offer anything more than the seemingly less risky competition?
I've considered the Mercedes S Class and decided not to look any further into it. Whilst they look beautiful, the ones in my price range are all showing rusted rear arches and I don't want an older model either. I'm not interested in a Volvo S80 because I've had an S60 and the S80 never impressed me a great deal. I'm not looking at Jaguar either, as much as I like them they are a 'country club' for my use. I want something refined and elegant, something you might see a despot dictator from sub-Saharan Africa driving in (aside from the obvious old Mercedes!).
I thought best to leave this here for easy reference rather than clog the Smoker Barges thread with it.
Oh, the MR2 is great on dual carriageways. I love it's overtaking ability, and the noise the engine makes when you're doing 60mph in 4th is just beautiful. But if I do move house, I'll doubtless feel like I'm not getting the best of the MR2 to make it worth keeping. It'd be like owning a Lancer Evolution to tackle the motorways, entirely competent but short-geared and begging for sweeping bends and empty roundabouts at midnight.
So my head is turned to these barges. Particularly the A8, today.
So my head is turned to these barges. Particularly the A8, today.
What about the 7 series BMW that was in the 1st Pierce Brosnan Bond film - Goldeneye was it?
I know it's a V12 and likely to be thirsty but that's a serious amount of car for not alot of money.
I'm off to check the classifieds now.....
Poor advert but here's an example http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3452818.html
I know it's a V12 and likely to be thirsty but that's a serious amount of car for not alot of money.
I'm off to check the classifieds now.....
Poor advert but here's an example http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3452818.html
Edited by allgonepetetong on Monday 28th November 11:02
7-Series are great - but look for a 740i rather than a 728i/735i.
I agree A8s are also very good - also the only Audi i would have...well an S8 anyway! - but i think if you're looking for a big German barge for £3k i think you'll have to budget for these unseen costs, especially for a gearbox which can cost upwards of £1k. You may be lucky and have a fault-free experience with one but then again you may not - if you find this too daunting perhaps you should buy? On the other hand try to look for an example with a gearbox that has been reconditioned by a dealer or replaced altogether and look for documented evidence too!
BTW - make sure you get a quattro A8, as there are a few FWD versions out there!
I agree A8s are also very good - also the only Audi i would have...well an S8 anyway! - but i think if you're looking for a big German barge for £3k i think you'll have to budget for these unseen costs, especially for a gearbox which can cost upwards of £1k. You may be lucky and have a fault-free experience with one but then again you may not - if you find this too daunting perhaps you should buy? On the other hand try to look for an example with a gearbox that has been reconditioned by a dealer or replaced altogether and look for documented evidence too!
BTW - make sure you get a quattro A8, as there are a few FWD versions out there!
LS400 is unlikely to give electrical woes and the important oily bits are as strong it gets. Water pump can start weeping at 150k, likewise the power steering pump. Both within scope of a strong DIYer. Like all barges, heavy on suspension bits.
X300 has an excellent reputation.
E38's, A8's, W140's I am very wary of with the electrics, autoboxes etc.
X300 has an excellent reputation.
E38's, A8's, W140's I am very wary of with the electrics, autoboxes etc.
No better value than these.., bought mine at 9 years old 28K miles, now done 50K, quiet,refined,loads of toys,superb ride comfort and been totally reliable bar one fan repaired.Sod the image,it ticks all your boxes, and from a Toyota main dealer to boot.You can't beat them for wafting value at sensible money and mileage.There's loads of the V6's with low miles to choose from as well, just check the belst were done at 6 years,as it's the big service bill.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...
If you're going for a barge you may as well do it properly.... (but you better be quick!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15917550
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15917550
Received wisdom on the A8 is to go for a pre-97 (I think) 4-speed version, rather than the later 5-speed.
If you wanted an older barge, the W124 Merc is a good starting point. They do feel "old" now, but very comfortable, well built and happily free from too much techo-gubbins so there's less to go wrong and it's easier to fix.
If you wanted an older barge, the W124 Merc is a good starting point. They do feel "old" now, but very comfortable, well built and happily free from too much techo-gubbins so there's less to go wrong and it's easier to fix.
Gruber said:
Received wisdom on the A8 is to go for a pre-97 (I think) 4-speed version, rather than the later 5-speed.
I was certainly looking towards the older 4 speeds. A friend of mine had a 4.2 Quattro model and the gearbox ended up failing on that. He asked Audi how much a replacement would be and they were after something like £7000! In the end he sol the car with a broken gearbox to bloke from London, who stuck it on a trailer and took it away!Not sure about the Rover 75 above, I've never liked the styling on those.
My mother has two Lexuses (don't ask...) and I personally find them just a little >too< soulless - lovely to cruise in and eerily quiet but you could drive off the edge of a cliff and there'd be no noticeable change to the steering feel. They are old though so maybe the suspension is knackered - I know Garlick has one and likes it.
The E38 7-series... get a 740i 4.4 and you could make a strong case for it being the only car you'll ever need. Thing is though... for around £3-4k you could have a lovely XJR V8.
The way I see it is, if you're going to barge, you're either trying to waft, or you're trying to intimidate smaller pleb-cars out of the way. My old 5-series always felt like it was cruising across Europe looking for weak countries to annexe
Your choice of barge will depend on which of those two approaches you prefer...
Of course you could take some brave pills and buy a £5k Bentley.
The E38 7-series... get a 740i 4.4 and you could make a strong case for it being the only car you'll ever need. Thing is though... for around £3-4k you could have a lovely XJR V8.
The way I see it is, if you're going to barge, you're either trying to waft, or you're trying to intimidate smaller pleb-cars out of the way. My old 5-series always felt like it was cruising across Europe looking for weak countries to annexe
Your choice of barge will depend on which of those two approaches you prefer...Of course you could take some brave pills and buy a £5k Bentley.
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