RE: Feature: Winter tyres - worth the bother?

[CommanderJameson]

slikrs said:

If you're talking proper winter/snow tyres, please don't - wear rates are greater but the main factor is that your braking / handling performance is severely impeded. That may not sound like a factor you care about if you think 'Driving Miss Daisy' is a white knuckle demonstration of driving skill but you only need one child to run in front of you or one car to pull out of a junction to regret that decision. Winter tyres IME make a car feel like it's driving on a loose surface when the road is dry and the temperature is higher.

Tyres are important, but if it's down to the tyres to save your (or the child's) bacon, you already done fked up, son.

Braking and handling isn't "severely" impeded, anyway. Pish and tosh.

[Tedswagon]

This should be enough to convince even the most sceptical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

The tests start at 40seconds

Edited by Tedswagon on Wednesday 30th November 10:41

[jagnet]

slikrs said:

Winter tyres IME make a car feel like it's driving on a loose surface when the road is dry and the temperature is higher.

Sorry, but I dispute that. Running on Nokian WR D3s throughout November this year, and with temperatures of up to 16 degrees they actually felt better in the dry in turn-in and little different under braking than the Uniroyal Rainexperts that I'd been running. Now that the colder mornings are here the improvement is clear, even in the dry. In the wet they've been outstanding so far - and that's in comparison to a summer tyre that leans towards wet weather ability.

[slikrs]

mrdemon said:

I went on this test day.

The issue is stopping, you can drive round the conditions, ie drive slower.

but when it comes to stopping with summer tyres on , well you just don't in the snow/ice.

the issue is if you need to stop with summer tyres on, you will crash
if you stop with winter tyres on, you will cause a crash, because the guy behind you will not have winter tyres on.

So it's a lose lose.

So many people have bold tyres on, people cannot even stop in the wet these days.
AT the end of the day people in the UK don't spend money on tyres, I would say 80% buy the cheapest tyres in the shop as it is.

As for the kick plate test, well I did them at the max speed you can 30mph and never spun once all day even with the summer tyres on :-)
Again if you cannot drive winter tyres are NOT going to stop you spinning, the car was easy to catch on the winters though.
Put my GF in the car even with winter tyres on and she would have spun every time.

1/3 of uk car users cannot drive, another 1/3 are average so at the end of the day you are screwed that's a lot of cars you have to avoid lol.

It's true, people don't respect that the tyres they buy are the single most important factor in the way a car performs if all other components are at an acceptable standard. I think it's criminal that major retail chains sell cheap sh*t tyres to the masses - how do some of these tyres pass safety tests!! We've got it all wrong in the UK, a premium tyre on the wear indicator limits has in my experience outperformed a budget tyre which has only just been scrubbed in wet conditions (including resistance to aquaplaning)!! Yet the stigma is placed upon having bald tyres fitted and not poor tyres.

Driving standards in this country are appalling and one of the reasons I just left the car in the garage last year was the fact that I literally dare not venture out into the City streets and thankfully didn't have to go further afield during the very poor weather period. I saw some horrific displays of callous overconfident driving from people who obviously had no concept of car control or idea of the grip available let alone the ability to perceive hazards. On several occasions I witnessed young male and assorted female drivers approach junctions at normal speeds then just skid right on into parked cars/moving cars/trees while the stability management software tried in vain to counteract the skid but also to counteract the any chance the driver had of getting out of the manoeuvre unscathed lol....

I have toyed with getting winter rubber but much as the above a new set of wheels/tyres would set me back £2k and I would want to try to get 17" wheels over my brakes if I can + reduce the wheel width so I could run a narrower tyre.

[slikrs]

CommanderJameson said:

Tyres are important, but if it's down to the tyres to save your (or the child's) bacon, you already done fked up, son.

Braking and handling isn't "severely" impeded, anyway. Pish and tosh.

We'll just have to agree to differ - I speak from experience and my point is that the right tyres are insurance which improve your chances of survival. If you believe that is pish and tosh then I hope you drive with your third eye!

[djon]

VerySideways said:

CommanderJameson said:

Anyone who simply spouts that they can do just as well in snow, on summer tyres, is deluding themselves.

+1!

+2! Having tired P Zero Sottos on a variety of cars on frozen lakes I was just astounded at how well they gripped. I have a set of spare wheels with winter rubber so just awaiting the snow now.

[McSam]

The cost of winter tyres really doesn't have to be disastrous. I'm in the fortunate situation of having a cheap tyre size on a spare set of alloys - this winter, £220 for all four tyres fitted, and I expect them to last me three or more years.

Even if you're without winter wheels, a set of steelies suffices for most cars. Yet to get the chance to test my Uniroyals out in proper conditions, but watching that American video really does highlight the differences on offer.

Something like that should, as someone commented on YouTube, really be made a public service announcement or part of the driving test.

[jagnet]

Tedswagon said:

This should be enough to convince even the most sceptical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

The tests start at 40seconds

What's even more striking is if you focus on the speed the red car is still travelling at when the winter shod one has stopped rather than stopping distances alone - it had barely started scrubbing off speed and that's at just 20 mph.

If the summer shod car was following the winter one at the sort of distances you see people leave all the time, that's going to be a hefty impact.

[eddieantifreeze]

I never really saw the point till i tried a friends car with winters last year - my mind is changed....

I'm self employed so not getting into work means I'm not paid - not worth the risk.

I think it all depends on if your willing to shop about, i bought a set of wheels for £50 off ebay. Shopped around online and found some nankang sv-2 tyres (cheapest tyre with half decent review) for £38 each.

I also got a set of wheels for the girlfriends car for £25 (bargain!)

As a result ive kitted out both our cars with winter wheels and tyres for £435, ok so i fitted them myself but it doesn't necessarily have to cost a fortune if you have a common enough wheel size and are willing to shop around.

[dean_ratpac]

Tedswagon said:

This should be enough to convince even the most sceptical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

The tests start at 40seconds

Edited by Tedswagon on Wednesday 30th November 10:41

Nice link, shocking at 10MPH too.

[Getsis]

Fish said:

While I used to be in the I grown up driving in snow and you can make summers work camp. I'm now definately in the winters are great camp. Lisa's Scirrocco will now run winters all year and so will the Audi when my ATRs wear out. The small percentage of grip lost in the summer on winters is drivable around the massive gain in traction form Sep to March on winters is a revelation. thats before you even consider ice and snow.

You shouldn't use them all year round, they become hard with use in warm summers.

[SonnyM]

This is a good article thanks.

Only thing to add is perhaps PH can remind us to order winter tyres well in advance because they highest rated tyres are already out of stock right now.

[TheOrangePeril]

£10 a wheel, £25 a tyre. That puts me under for £140 obviously that's for an untouched set of summer rubber to slap on 'cos, as ever, they don't do boots in my size.

[nickfrog]

It should be actually illegal to drive on summer tyres as soon as the temperature hits 6.9 degrees, even if that's at 3.00am and you're in your bed.
At 7 degrees though, no problems.

[Denorth]

being a person who grew up and learnt to drive in area above Polar Circle it makes me laugh when people trying to prove that there is no use of winter tyres on ice roads.

I was always using studded tyres (different generations of Nokian Hakkapeliitta), but they are not allowed here of course and there is no really point in having them if there is no snow on the road. But having winter tyres like Michelin X-Ice 2, Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice+, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is essential during winter time with cold weather and some snow. Even in UK

and there is one thing about winter driving. Winter tyres feel differently from summer ones. It is normal. As it is normal that the road surface is different from summer time. Again it is normal. Anyone from North can tell that you just drive differently during winter times - allow bigger distance to stop and lower speed for corners... I think it is called common sense

[eddieantifreeze]

Ahh - common sense.

That wonderful thing that seems to have been lost from current society

[thinfourth2]

mrdemon said:

Oelholm said:

- But if the guy behind you crashes into you, it's his insurance that will pay...

if you are still alive !!!!

As i said the differance is so great stopping with winters on a motorway would cause a massive crash/pileup.
I dare not even think about what would happen.

It's ok in other colder places as every one changes.

Well in which case it is safer to just not use the brake pedal in any situation if braking is so incredably dangerous

I might even drain my brake fluid to be extra safe

[Car Mad Dave]

I'm with the pro winter tyre brigade here.

I live a lot of the time in Prague and travel all over Europe. Snow, rain and freezing temperatures exist throughout the winter but everyone on the roads keep going, its no different to summer. IMO, there are many factors why mainland Europe doesn't come to a standstill when snow falls (e.g. sufficient road salt and a full infrastructure to keep roads cleared). One of these factors is that winter tyres are used almost without exception. As my daily driver, I now run a Porsche 997 4WD with winter tyres(18" 295 section). They give me all the benefits of stopping on cold, wet, icy, snow roads and there is no degradation in ride quality - even when it occassionally goes above the magical 7 degree C. Yes I had to incur the cost of an extra sets of wheels (Porsche ain't cheap), but now I have them then that's it. When buying a car in Europe, the mindset is that your purcahse price is the car plus a set of winter wheels and tyres. And don't forget that both sets of tyres last longer because you're only using them for half the year!!

CMD

[alock]

Denorth said:

being a person who grew up and learnt to drive in area above Polar Circle it makes me laugh when people trying to prove that there is no use of winter tyres on ice roads.

That's the key point though. For the majority of people in the UK, the average number of days per year that major roads are covered in snow or ice is less than 1. We've had two bad winters and even then a bad winter is defined as about 3 days where the roads are covered in snow or ice.

There is a sizeable minority that live far enough north that they have several weeks/months of snow in an average year and their is a small minority in the south who live down country lanes that can be treacherous even after a heavy frost.

In my opinion, the UK is right on the limit of where the expense/hassle of winter tyres is justified. For some it will be, for other it won't be. Treating someone who commutes on unclassified roads through the high lands as the same as someone who commutes up the M3 is silly.

[J4CKO]

I really hope its a mild winter Like usual, no signs of any snow or even a frost yet.