RE: PH Blog: what's the point of BTCC?

[MG CHRIS]

Riggers said:

MG CHRIS said:

Atleast say something positive about it like the new 3 year MG works deal to be in the btcc from next year onwards and the biggest grid at silverstone since the 2.0 litre era begun.

Something positive like this you mean?

Record grid revealed for 2011 BTCC

I'm not always negative

I Know your not but i honestly don't understand whats the point of the blog. Far enough for the last one with lotus to manage the engines of the turbos but this has nothing of value about it just saying what it used to be like.

Now and again the same thread pops up on general motorsport and its boring.

This next bit is not aimed at you riggers but be thankfull we still have the btcc around after the disastor of the 00 season when manafacture left the, series was in real trouble. 01 came around with new rules and only 10 or so cars on the grid it had to be proped up by the production cup but since gow as come back 2003 i think it has grown year by year mayby 1 bad season 05 but to have the grid we had this year in a finacal crissis we are in which is partly down to the ngtc rules with 6 new cars on the grid is impresive.

Not 1 top champonship in the world apart from gt racing has there been an increase in grid sizes that we have seen in the btcc.

Btcc doesn't need manafactures sure 2-3 or good but the independents make the btcc what it is today and i will keep on watching it and going to the tracks to see it plus its got a 7 hour footage of the btcc and support package on itv4 live.

Edited by MG CHRIS on Thursday 1st December 20:14

[P I Staker]

dtrump said:

Australian V8 Supercars still works well,..................oh yeah they have big power

And historic rear suspension.

[P I Staker]

lotus99t said:

P I Staker said:

I'm going to be a nosey bugger, what is it you do?

Lol . I valet all the course for each round. This includes setting up of the safety car and most importantly, detailing Alan Gow's car (series director).

I was hoping for some sort of insight into what's going on behind the scenes, maybe not from the cleaner though?

[long time lurker]

Btcc has being interesting this year with turbo V N/A and fwd and rwd mixes (although I feel chevy regretted staying N/A as they have lost lots of straight line speed compared to the turbo's)

TV wise ITV4 with live races and it's own show rather than early 90's slotted in on grandstand! Now which is better as I don't need to watch gymnastics first?
People commenting on the this years crashes etc... Did you not watch the early 90's racing? (Even Andy Rouse said it was like stock car racing)

and if you have watched this season it was still close with 3 makes having a chance to win... (Honda, Ford and Chevy) Let's see what next year brings? I agree you'll never get it as good as the RS500 era but all motor sport is the same (safer lower powered cars etc)

[lloydo20]

I have watched BTCC 1998 onwards and while I miss the massive budget factory teams and a grid of the world best pro drivers BTCC is still by some margin the best close racing in the touring car world!! I watch WTCC, DTM, V8 Aussie racing you cant match the number of diffrent makes and models and ITV coverage is great and its getting better year by year and i truly think NGTC will bring a new golden age! And i hope more crack pro drivers will join the series or come back. And perhaps more factory teams but not the end of the world. You still have bumper to bumper racing thats not so tightly governed, so rough overtaking and skillful over taking happens lap by lap not race by race like some other motor sports!! I think some areas like power output capped at 300bhp needs to move with the times perhaps 350-400 bhp easly done with the new turbo engines! this is purly to put the iceing on the cake because the BTCC RULES and dispite having the season on my Sky Box the DUKES DVD is top on my x mas list !!!

[MG CHRIS]

P I Staker said:

dtrump said:

Australian V8 Supercars still works well,..................oh yeah they have big power

And historic rear suspension.

And rwd, would love to see mainly fwd btcc cars run 500bhp

I don't find v8 supercars entertaining and they are all the same car apart from the badges.

[AndyBrew]

I think the BTCC is head and shoulders above F1 which bores the pants off me!

It just needs more manufacturer teams and it would be perfect, the ITV4 coverage makes my Sunday afternoon whilst recovering from my hangover

[lotus99t]

P I Staker said:

I was hoping for some sort of insight into what's going on behind the scenes, maybe not from the cleaner though?

Haha. We work out of the main TOCA hospitality bus, so we get to see and hear everything and it's opened my eyes I'll tell ya. It's a mega series run by some of the nicest people I've ever met.

[lloydo20]

I think FWD will be out the question above 400bhp hence why capping it there will be fine ! think when you have hot hatches running 300bhp (focus rs) touring cars need to move with the times NGTC will be the way forward and i hope most of the teams will be running Full NGTC spec next year.

I Hope RML/CHEVY get the budget to get x2 NGTC Cruzes up and running plato should take a pay cut : P rumours of MG running a factory team would be great and lets face it like chevy they need the street cred. I really hope WSR get x2 ngtc BMW and turkington back behind the wheel. I cant understand why AON and STR are trying to break into the WTCC the TV covertage sucks dispite being showed world wide and its more expensive they have more pro drivers but thats where it ends having anything on the BTCC and DUKES dont even do a dvd review on it anymore?? Used to back the BMW Team and Andy P but they have pulled out dying series sorry!

[MG CHRIS]

Team aon planned to go to the wtcc when they started build the global focus no team would build a new car to s2000 spec then build a new car for ngtc spec 1-2 year latter why go there bigger market for aon to grow.

STR are staying in the btcc but the 4 seat leons they have 2 are being run for btcc and 2 for wtcc well that the plan. Looks like bordeman will go back to wtcc. Why go back well they come from wtcc in the first place and wider audiance.

[Ian974]

I can see both sides of this to a degree, differences between rules for different car setups and squabbling caused by this (from the ususal suspects) has seemed to take a bit away from the series, but when the new rules get sorted out and it's a properly level field again, I can see it going well. Lots of independant teams, a couple of manufacturers, big crowds and close racing.
The only thing missing now really is some more big name drivers to make it seem a little more 'special', as it seems that there's no reference to a 'known' fast driver.
A couple of reasonably recent F1 drivers, The likes of Coulthard, or if they hadn't gone back Raikkonen or Schumacher would probably be a big draw to the crowd and be seen as a challenge for the drivers?

[MG CHRIS]

What team would be able to afford an f1 driver not one and why would f1 drivers run in the btcc.

Would be good to see though teach hamilton a thing or two about how to crash. No sorry i mean race with other without crashsing.

[Paulsmith001]

If you like "real"touring cars then there is going to be a race at the Silverstone Classic in July next year open to any genuine touring car from 1975 to 2000, (these years are unconfirmed at present and may extend slightly) Currently there are almost thirty cars entered including plenty of M3's and RS500's.

[Crafty_]

BrentN said:

It seems simply to me, that old motor racing phrase of "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" is what it needs to get back to...

Lets make the rules simple

Take the top hot hatches from each manufacturer, Focus RS, Vauxhall Astra VXR etc allow the fitment of a safety cage, allow them to strip out the interior and some stickers to the outside and some racing tyres. And thats it standard suspension, standard engine, standard wheels.

Dunlop SportMax ? its very close to what you suggest, albeit it with "bolt on" mods allowed.

Personally I've not found BTCC as interesting the last couple of years. I see "the biggest grid ever" touted, sure but its full of old cars - the vectras will still be knocking about, now 5 years old, the civics are the same age and so on. Lea Wood was running his integra last year - how old is that thing ?
The Chevys were running engines based on the XE that Vauxhall stopping using in road cars in 1994.

I know things are changing with NGTC but when there was high manufacturer involvement at least new cars meant the status quo never lasted for long - Vauxhall are top dogs one year, BMW the next, Renault the year after and so on.

I also think the drivers conduct needs to improve. Plato behaved pathetically last year - not only the whining and moaning but the antagonising actions/fisticuffs for no other reason that to wind people up. Not what I expect from "sportsmen". Driving standards have even caused some drivers to be embarrassed this year.

Lets hope things improve in 2012.

[EDLT]

MG CHRIS said:

What team would be able to afford an f1 driver not one and why would f1 drivers run in the btcc.

Would be good to see though teach hamilton a thing or two about how to crash. No sorry i mean race with other without crashsing.

Herbert wasn't that fast when he was in it a few years ago. We won't get big name drivers because they will want paying, the only way that would happen is if the manufacturers came back and that would eventually lead to another boom and bust period. Which nobody wants outside PH's resident experts that know so much they don't even watch the racing.

[EDLT]

Crafty_ said:

Dunlop SportMax ? its very close to what you suggest, albeit it with "bolt on" mods allowed.

Personally I've not found BTCC as interesting the last couple of years. I see "the biggest grid ever" touted, sure but its full of old cars - the vectras will still be knocking about, now 5 years old, the civics are the same age and so on. Lea Wood was running his integra last year - how old is that thing ?
The Chevys were running engines based on the XE that Vauxhall stopping using in road cars in 1994.

This year the Chevys, Hondas, Seats, Toyota, Proton, Fords, Audis and an Insignia at the end of the year (will do a full season next year) were all current models. Is the new BMW repmobile out yet? It wasn't at the start of the year so you could add BMW to that list. Being "full of old cars" is an odd complaint when everyone is getting misty eyed over Sierras.

[IainW]

MG CHRIS said:

I don't find v8 supercars entertaining and they are all the same car apart from the badges.

For me it's all about the drivers. Probably 90% of those guys in the V8s are top drawer drivers. And the cars aren't exactly identical, you can have a lot of different combinations of chassis builder and engine builder, which makes the racing exciting. Perhaps what Mr Gow is after, it all comes down to who builds the best version of a car. I honestly don't care about massive variety in terms of car makes and models. 5 different types of car would do me, as long as the talent behind the wheel was up to scratch.

Who knows what might have happened had BMW not bullied the FIA into adopting S2000 at the turn of the century. The ETCC was looking at the BTC-Touring rules, but as BMW wouldn't be able to sell upgrade kits to teams, they got S2000 pushed through instead. Touring car racing's looking a bit messed up at the moment, with BTCC and (if they have any cars left) the STCC doing NGTC, the WTCC doing 1.6 S2000 and other series turning to silhouette cars.

EDLT said:

Is the new BMW repmobile out yet? It wasn't at the start of the year so you could add BMW to that list. Being "full of old cars" is an odd complaint when everyone is getting misty eyed over Sierras.

Yes, but BMW aren't making a racing version for 2012. Perhaps for 2013. Although NGTC would require a team going it alone and doing their own one, as any BMW involvement would be for S2000 only.

[SR06]

NotKenBlock said:

Birmingham Super Prix was my childhood dream.. looked forward to it all year!

Wish they'd bring it back. The cameras are too far away these days so no sense of speed these days.

[F1GTRUeno]

P I Staker said:

Yeah! Mondeos and Cavaliers are much more interesting!

looks better than

[Exar Kun]

It's funny how people say they'd rather turn over and watch Aussie V8s instead because over here, the Aussie V8s are being viewed in much the same light as BTCC over there. They're basically a silhouette series now and that will be moreso in a couple of years when the "Car of the Future" debuts. Due to this, the Holden vs Ford battle has lost relevance (particularly since a lot of the once loyal drivers switch between manufacturers without a worry these days) and the cars never get any faster since almost any sort of technical development is outlawed.

I admit that if I had a choice between 2 litre FWD and 5 litre RWD racing cars then I'd be watching the V8s everytime but as a series it has become stale. Hopefully the new car injects some excitement but they will only be even less relevant to the road cars than they are now.

A lot of people here bemoan the loss of the Group A category which was basically about RS500 Sierras aswell (even though they were never sold here) and at the end the Nissan GTR came along and wiped the floor with everything else which in part prompted the beginning of the V8 touring car era.