RE: Lotus unveils Evora GTE 'By Swizz Beatz'
Discussion
Mark Benson said:
- the Porker key fob will always do that better.
Tuna said:
Not really. You might as well say, "Sell lots". How is Lotus not credible? The Evora, Exige and Elise are remarkable cars. It's a testament to how good Lotus have got that a ten year old Elise can still command well over 10 grand.
pipe down man and get the rose tinted specs off for just one minute, i wont discuss the s1, that was a revelation, but since that lotus have been infamous for their figures, then the facts ... which never match up. only a blind fool would deny it. but be my guest.... if you want to be taken seriously you don't sell a half finished car (sorry LE edition) and pitch it against the benchmark premium player in the market that spent decades earning its credibility that coined the phrase 'german horses' as in does 'more' than is stated on the tin, or publish a weight of a car that then changes 4 months later (v6 exige) ... or show pictures and film of a car pounding round the ring (supposedly testing) , claim its the fastest production car the company made and yet..... fail to publish a time. why do you think the evoras having such a hard time to sell? we all know the latest version is very good but why don't people buy them ?
the damage is done old fruit ...
knowing lotus' credibility .... i fully expect the v6 exige not to do the claimed 0-100mph in under 8 seconds.... DO YOU? ..... shame as if its far from the claimed time it will stop me from buying one.... because simply put, in reality it isn't the car that was originally sold to me. i do hope this time lotus are a little more credible with their performance figures on the exige v6.
get it?
Edited by bobo on Thursday 8th December 20:06
bobo said:
Tuna said:
Not really. You might as well say, "Sell lots". How is Lotus not credible? The Evora, Exige and Elise are remarkable cars. It's a testament to how good Lotus have got that a ten year old Elise can still command well over 10 grand.
pipe down man and get the rose tinted specs off for just one minute, i wont discuss the s1, that was a revelation, but since that lotus have been infamous for their figures, then the facts ... which never match up. only a blind fool would deny it. but be my guest.... People seem quite bipolar about Lotus; in one breath they say they're drivers cars, actually quite reliable, fun to own. Then in the next breath they're no good, slow, ugly. If you say they're not credible, you have to at least say where you think they fall short.
Why would a typcial buyer chose a Lotus?
Maybe because
- they like doing track days
- they are really (really) into car dyamics/engineering/handling
- and they are on a limited budget and cant afford a Porche/Ferrari
- or maybe their dad had one as a kid and have an affinity with the brand
- or they just wanted a weekend toy and have a family/co' car for other duties
If Lotus focus on that tiny segment people will continue to buy them.
If Lotus start producing cars similar in style to Bentleys and pimped up Range Rover Sports I could understand why they'd need Mr Swizz B to help them find new customers.
But I can't see that crowd falling in love with quirky plastic oddball cars that no one knows what they are, or where they are from, but that handle amazingly (would they even notice that part?).
Maybe because
- they like doing track days
- they are really (really) into car dyamics/engineering/handling
- and they are on a limited budget and cant afford a Porche/Ferrari
- or maybe their dad had one as a kid and have an affinity with the brand
- or they just wanted a weekend toy and have a family/co' car for other duties
If Lotus focus on that tiny segment people will continue to buy them.
If Lotus start producing cars similar in style to Bentleys and pimped up Range Rover Sports I could understand why they'd need Mr Swizz B to help them find new customers.
But I can't see that crowd falling in love with quirky plastic oddball cars that no one knows what they are, or where they are from, but that handle amazingly (would they even notice that part?).
Wooooooow, hot topic. Okay recap. Had to check again, watch the video. Everyone should try this, just to have a second opinion. Sounds like Transformers changing for the sound track, and I'd admit, I'm even into Drum & Bass. That's not the issue for me. Lively colours, and modern music goes well. For me it all goes horribly wrong at 2.09 minutes, with 'This is a blessing', and the speech, then very bad distortion, and the 'jump up, jump up & get around' frenzzy. Reminds me of 'SNATCH', and the comment 'Bust a cap'. 'You gotta gun in your pocket'
Na, doesn't work. Danny, try getting JR Hearttttttttttttttly in the next add :-)
Na, doesn't work. Danny, try getting JR Hearttttttttttttttly in the next add :-)
Good heads-up.
Wonder how much they paid that blokey for crediting near enough his whole family, finding his bro, trying to re-birth us for something or other and making an appalling racket?
Whatever it was, it was at least that amount too much. OK, make it just a full refund; at least he had the gumption to make people cheer and clap when they pulled off the wraps - which for a split-second it looked like they weren't going to - guess they must have been momentarily struck dumb by that chrome paint or perhaps it was that masterpiece of a logo.
Decent enough motor overwhelmed by a s
te endorsed Edition gets ste Launch. Fair enough then I suppose. Still a real pity.
Wonder how much they paid that blokey for crediting near enough his whole family, finding his bro, trying to re-birth us for something or other and making an appalling racket?
Whatever it was, it was at least that amount too much. OK, make it just a full refund; at least he had the gumption to make people cheer and clap when they pulled off the wraps - which for a split-second it looked like they weren't going to - guess they must have been momentarily struck dumb by that chrome paint or perhaps it was that masterpiece of a logo.
Decent enough motor overwhelmed by a s
te endorsed Edition gets ste Launch. Fair enough then I suppose. Still a real pity.Mark Benson said:
Stop trying to be Porsche.
Europa was a good idea, badly marketed. If Lotus hadn't marketed it as a rival to the Cayman, but instead gone after the "I'd like an Exige but it's too hardcore/track oriented to be a daily driver" they may have sold a few more.
Honestly, no-one comes close to Porsche in the minds of many, many people who buy this type of car so don't try and compete on their playing field. They should have sold the Europa to 20 and 30-somethings with a love of driving but a need for a daily driver, which is what it was.
What it wasn't, was a car for impressing your mates/girls etc. - the Porker key fob will always do that better.
Now they're trying the same thing with the Evora - a Lambo/Ferrari/Porsche fob will always win with a certain demographic so you must provide an alternative prospect and look for people accordingly - that doesn't include using someone many, many prospective purchasers haven't heard of with a spelling mistake for a name to create a shiny version of your product and pretend he had 'creative input'.
If the rappers start rapping about their Lotuses, great. But it's got to come from them, not from you.
What should they do - be realistic. Why build a car with superior dynamics but a conservative look then sell it as if it was the opposite, the scene they've chosen isn't about how it drives, it's what it says about you and how much money you've got. It's USP is not 'da bling' so rappers etc. are not going to endorse it credibly.
The Evora is not going to be the first choice for most, so seek out anyone that might consider your product and bombard them with it. It's USP is the drive, so get the 'right' people talking about that in public, people whose opinions are respected.
But if you really want to appeal to wannabe rappers and footballers, make your next car look like it should cost £300k and sell it for £50k but don't bother with dynamics, just put a big engine in and be done with it.
Alternatively, keep making wonderful nuanced cars but build on the customer base you have - most of them are incredibly loyal (I've had a S1 Sport 190 and a S2 Exige and I'm sure I'll buy another Lotus at some point soon).
Great post and totally agree. If they want to sell more cars, they need to get the core product spot on (the Evora sadly was only 85% there) and then market it on the engineering. Rap stars and 21" chrome spinners aren't what Lotus is about and they never will be. Stop trying to emulate Porsche\Ferrari because you will fail.Europa was a good idea, badly marketed. If Lotus hadn't marketed it as a rival to the Cayman, but instead gone after the "I'd like an Exige but it's too hardcore/track oriented to be a daily driver" they may have sold a few more.
Honestly, no-one comes close to Porsche in the minds of many, many people who buy this type of car so don't try and compete on their playing field. They should have sold the Europa to 20 and 30-somethings with a love of driving but a need for a daily driver, which is what it was.
What it wasn't, was a car for impressing your mates/girls etc. - the Porker key fob will always do that better.
Now they're trying the same thing with the Evora - a Lambo/Ferrari/Porsche fob will always win with a certain demographic so you must provide an alternative prospect and look for people accordingly - that doesn't include using someone many, many prospective purchasers haven't heard of with a spelling mistake for a name to create a shiny version of your product and pretend he had 'creative input'.
If the rappers start rapping about their Lotuses, great. But it's got to come from them, not from you.
What should they do - be realistic. Why build a car with superior dynamics but a conservative look then sell it as if it was the opposite, the scene they've chosen isn't about how it drives, it's what it says about you and how much money you've got. It's USP is not 'da bling' so rappers etc. are not going to endorse it credibly.
The Evora is not going to be the first choice for most, so seek out anyone that might consider your product and bombard them with it. It's USP is the drive, so get the 'right' people talking about that in public, people whose opinions are respected.
But if you really want to appeal to wannabe rappers and footballers, make your next car look like it should cost £300k and sell it for £50k but don't bother with dynamics, just put a big engine in and be done with it.
Alternatively, keep making wonderful nuanced cars but build on the customer base you have - most of them are incredibly loyal (I've had a S1 Sport 190 and a S2 Exige and I'm sure I'll buy another Lotus at some point soon).
Tuna said:
I've got to ask how you guys would 'fix it'?
What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
If a brand is trying to compete in a market dominated by more established players, their own product needs to be one of two things or more preferably both.What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
1. It needs to be better value for money (cheaper) than the market leader while offering a comparable experience
2. It needs to be similar in value while offering a much better experience.
In my opinion, the Evora's nemesis is the Cayman which is regularly regarded as a better product for similar if not less money. If Lotus got the base models to a level that could change the mindset of aspiring Cayman drivers to their brand, the Evora would gain wide scale respect from the sprotscar driving communities around the world. Then the release of a super hot version, such as the GTE, would probably sell in good numbers without the need for gimmicky marketing campaigns. I know the Cayman is a relatively niche Porsche and not to everybody's cup of tea but I bet there would be plenty of interest in an offical 444bhp version, even if it was £130K.
RudeDog said:
If a brand is trying to compete in a market dominated by more established players, their own product needs to be one of two things or more preferably both.
1. It needs to be better value for money (cheaper) than the market leader while offering a comparable experience
2. It needs to be similar in value while offering a much better experience.
Exactly the point I tried to make in another Lotus thread a few months ago. Unfortunately the Evora is neither considerably cheaper nor consdirably better than it's rivals. The fact that it also doesn't have half the brand image of the likes of Porsche = Evora sales in the 100's rather than the 1000's they expected. Ill concieved marketing campaigns aren't going to fix this fundamental issue that everyone seems to realise except Lotus.1. It needs to be better value for money (cheaper) than the market leader while offering a comparable experience
2. It needs to be similar in value while offering a much better experience.
BSC said:
It's something I will not carry with me let alone put on the counter of the pub.
Do people actually do this? I would feel sorry for someone who put their car key on a pub table. Also, if the key alone is enough to put you off buying the car, I'd suggest you weren't that serious about buying one in the first place. Minor things like that are WAY down on my list of priorities. The fact the Evora was not a 911 was a plus point for me. Its nice having something different and not following the crowd.
As for ugly? I don't think anyone has ever said that to me. In fact, everyone has been very positive about its looks.. Maybe its the colour!
Dodgey_Rog said:
The amount of Automotive Marketing experts there are in this thread, why didn't Lotus contact some of you to work with the 'New Era' launch??
To be honest I think I could do a better job than the Marketing monkies currently in charge. How to take a perfectly good brand with a huge depth of heritage and some very unique core values and completely p*ss it all up the wall in one easy step with a me too marketing campaign.justin220 said:
Do people actually do this? I would feel sorry for someone who put their car key on a pub table.
Also, if the key alone is enough to put you off buying the car, I'd suggest you weren't that serious about buying one in the first place. Minor things like that are WAY down on my list of priorities. The fact the Evora was not a 911 was a plus point for me. Its nice having something different and not following the crowd.
As for ugly? I don't think anyone has ever said that to me. In fact, everyone has been very positive about its looks.. Maybe its the colour!
Interesting change from a Gallardo to an Evora, love to hear the motivation and your opinion.Also, if the key alone is enough to put you off buying the car, I'd suggest you weren't that serious about buying one in the first place. Minor things like that are WAY down on my list of priorities. The fact the Evora was not a 911 was a plus point for me. Its nice having something different and not following the crowd.
As for ugly? I don't think anyone has ever said that to me. In fact, everyone has been very positive about its looks.. Maybe its the colour!
justin220 said:
As for ugly? I don't think anyone has ever said that to me. In fact, everyone has been very positive about its looks.. Maybe its the colour!
Nah, mine's battleship grey and it's slill well appreciated! Great colour though, especially with the wheels.I think my logic was fairly similar, it's better to drive than the equivalent Porsches, but having something that wasn't a Porsche was definitely a significant part of the appeal. Granted there are plenty of them knocking around Norfolk, but when I go back to my parents in Surrey I've never seen another.
RudeDog said:
The problem is that people who find excitement from "Is it going to start this morning?" are in the minority.
It isn't 1980. 8 years of Elise ownership, only fault was a failed clutch cylinder (not a Lotus part - actually made by AP Racing I think). Only time it hasn't started is when I haven't driven it for a while, then it starts on the button on a jump start and works fine since.1000 miles in an Evora, no issues at all.
Evora is a lot more exciting to look at than any Cayman or 911 too but I confess to not having driven a Porsche so have to go along with the likes of Evo when they tell me that what I experienced is as good as it gets for the pricepoint.
zebedee said:
It isn't 1980. 8 years of Elise ownership, only fault was a failed clutch cylinder (not a Lotus part - actually made by AP Racing I think). Only time it hasn't started is when I haven't driven it for a while, then it starts on the button on a jump start and works fine since.
1000 miles in an Evora, no issues at all.
Evora is a lot more exciting to look at than any Cayman or 911 too but I confess to not having driven a Porsche so have to go along with the likes of Evo when they tell me that what I experienced is as good as it gets for the pricepoint.
I agree that the brand probably produces much more reliable cars than it used to but lots of people still associate it with unreliability and a Porsche with reliability (although the German's are going in the wrong direction!). This is something the marketing department should be concentrating on improving.1000 miles in an Evora, no issues at all.
Evora is a lot more exciting to look at than any Cayman or 911 too but I confess to not having driven a Porsche so have to go along with the likes of Evo when they tell me that what I experienced is as good as it gets for the pricepoint.
I agree the Evora looks lots better than a Cayman or a 911 but I have never driven one so I too can only go off the EVO/TG/PH/etc reviews about the drive. The Evora is too dear though and it loses money fast and for a lot of people, this is what ultimately sways them to the Pork. It did with me anyway.
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