RE: Ferrari unveils 599 GTB 60 F1 run-out special
Discussion
Mr fox said:
I most certainly agree with you that this special edition does look rubbish, but I'm sure lap times around various tracks would notify you that this car is not going to be just a point and press car.
Also another thing I dont understand is why people label cars "too digital", I mean it's not soo digital that its going to make you a driving expert, and not able to crash it.
In these cars you do have a choice to turn all driver aids off. This digitalisation as you put it is the evolution of cars and how to make them faster, lighter, more stable, and SAFER, which in my eyes is a good thing.
The lap times tell you nothing about how much work the driver is doing to make them. Also, lap times mean fAlso another thing I dont understand is why people label cars "too digital", I mean it's not soo digital that its going to make you a driving expert, and not able to crash it.
In these cars you do have a choice to turn all driver aids off. This digitalisation as you put it is the evolution of cars and how to make them faster, lighter, more stable, and SAFER, which in my eyes is a good thing.
k all to me - I want something that is fun to drive. I've driven a Gallardo and a 430 Scud and whilst both were mighty impressive aurally and in a straight line, the feeling that you weren't the only one driving in the corners was disconcerting and I was happy to get back in my Exige at the end of the experience. Yes, you can flick the mannetino all the way round and turn them off, but the cars are designed to handle with the electronics on. Also you can't turn off your automated manual gearbox and have a third pedal magically appear in the footwell (how cool would that be if you could have both).
Cars like the M600, Exige, Caterhams etc are where I think the real fun is. These Ferraris are playboy's toys which look s
te and flatter the driver by doing all the work. PS lighter? How do electronics make these cars lighter? The 599 weighs in at over 1500ks which is totally unacceptable I think for a performance car. THe electronics are an attempt to make a heavy car feel lighter. I always laugh at the lightweight Ferraris/Lambos which have shed "80 kgs" - so the same as if you don't take a passenger with you. Must try harder on adding lightness I think.
Edited by b14 on Wednesday 7th December 11:51
365daytonafan said:
AV12 said:
Why can't we have a special "Manual transmission run-out special"?
Manual transmission was available on the 599 but as hardly anyone brought one it has been dropped.I think it's great news that they are making a few more 599s. I seem to recall seeing articles saying they went out of production in about March or April this spring. There was a 599 GTB on the stand at this autumn's Frankfurt show, even though it was allegedly out of production.
My guess is this - some more buyers tried to buy a new 599 this year, were told it was out of production. At this point Ferrari quite rightly thought again (so as not to lose sales of a car whose tooling etc. is now totally paid for, therefore extra units produced would have a minimal cost to Ferrari).
I also think this looks pretty good - surely a red Ferrari V12 N/A is surely a thing to be celebrated?
My guess is this - some more buyers tried to buy a new 599 this year, were told it was out of production. At this point Ferrari quite rightly thought again (so as not to lose sales of a car whose tooling etc. is now totally paid for, therefore extra units produced would have a minimal cost to Ferrari).
I also think this looks pretty good - surely a red Ferrari V12 N/A is surely a thing to be celebrated?
b14 said:
Mr fox said:
I most certainly agree with you that this special edition does look rubbish, but I'm sure lap times around various tracks would notify you that this car is not going to be just a point and press car.
Also another thing I dont understand is why people label cars "too digital", I mean it's not soo digital that its going to make you a driving expert, and not able to crash it.
In these cars you do have a choice to turn all driver aids off. This digitalisation as you put it is the evolution of cars and how to make them faster, lighter, more stable, and SAFER, which in my eyes is a good thing.
The lap times tell you nothing about how much work the driver is doing to make them. Also, lap times mean fAlso another thing I dont understand is why people label cars "too digital", I mean it's not soo digital that its going to make you a driving expert, and not able to crash it.
In these cars you do have a choice to turn all driver aids off. This digitalisation as you put it is the evolution of cars and how to make them faster, lighter, more stable, and SAFER, which in my eyes is a good thing.
k all to me - I want something that is fun to drive. I've driven a Gallardo and a 430 Scud and whilst both were mighty impressive aurally and in a straight line, the feeling that you weren't the only one driving in the corners was disconcerting and I was happy to get back in my Exige at the end of the experience. Yes, you can flick the mannetino all the way round and turn them off, but the cars are designed to handle with the electronics on. Also you can't turn off your automated manual gearbox and have a third pedal magically appear in the footwell (how cool would that be if you could have both).
Cars like the M600, Exige, Caterhams etc are where I think the real fun is. These Ferraris are playboy's toys which look s
te and flatter the driver by doing all the work. PS lighter? How do electronics make these cars lighter? The 599 weighs in at over 1500ks which is totally unacceptable I think for a performance car. THe electronics are an attempt to make a heavy car feel lighter. I always laugh at the lightweight Ferraris/Lambos which have shed "80 kgs" - so the same as if you don't take a passenger with you. Must try harder on adding lightness I think.
Edited by b14 on Wednesday 7th December 11:51
IMHO any car can be fun on a track depending on how much abuse you want to give it , and how much more over your own capable limits you are prepared to push it. I must admit I do prefer paddle shifts to manual's, but thats just a personal choice.
As for lightness, I'm sure manufacturers of these sorts of cars dont add extra weight just for the sake of it. Again the V12 weighs heavier than a V8.
When i'm looking for a car the things I look for are looks, sounds, style, speed, etc, and sure the Noble does tick all of those, but if I personally had a choise over a M600 or 599GTO. I would choose the latter.
Mr fox said:
Also another thing I dont understand is why people label cars "too digital", I mean it's not soo digital that its going to make you a driving expert, and not able to crash it.
I would label a car "too digital" if it's electronics reduced the need for driver skill. Learning how to rev match on downshifts adds to the visceral pleasure of driving. Paddle shift removes that. Learning how much power to apply as steering lock is removed is a skill. Traction control removes this. Etc. Applying driving skills can add great pleasure and satisfaction to driving. When the electronics make driver skills redundant, then my driving pleasure is lessened.Edited by SVS on Wednesday 7th December 15:01
Mr fox said:
This digitalisation as you put it is the evolution of cars and how to make them faster, lighter, more stable, and SAFER, which in my eyes is a good thing.
They should be safer. However, many drivers can drive faster because the electronics make them feel safe. It's called Risk Compensation:"There are at least three studies which show that drivers' response to antilock brakes is to drive faster, follow closer and brake later, accounting for the failure of ABS to result in any measurable improvement in road safety."
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation
Mr fox said:
In these cars you do have a choice to turn all driver aids off. This digitalisation as you put it is the evolution of cars and how to make them faster, lighter, more stable, and SAFER, which in my eyes is a good thing.
Much like the Euro fighter, you CAN turn off the driver aids, but some cars are becomeing so reliant on them that they are a pig without them. I see it as being a two part problem:1) the rush for more power means that the only way you can use it is complex power management, to make sure the driver cannot press the pedal 5mm to far at the wrong time.
2) engineers are no longer building a good, drivable car and then adding safty, but building something with all the electronics in as they go, so you end up with something that is rubbish without the computers doing things like smothing out inputs or constantly checking traction.
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