RE: Lotus goes hybrid
Discussion
ZesPak said:
Problem would be that it would be:
1) About 140bhp
2) Heavier because of hybrid tech
3) More expensive to produce than a regular one
So that would make a slower, worse handling Elise for more money.
And the above is worse than an aggresively styled invalid carraige in what way? 1) About 140bhp
2) Heavier because of hybrid tech
3) More expensive to produce than a regular one
So that would make a slower, worse handling Elise for more money.
MonkeyMatt said:
ZesPak said:
Problem would be that it would be:
1) About 140bhp
2) Heavier because of hybrid tech
3) More expensive to produce than a regular one
So that would make a slower, worse handling Elise for more money.
And the above is worse than an aggresively styled invalid carraige in what way? 1) About 140bhp
2) Heavier because of hybrid tech
3) More expensive to produce than a regular one
So that would make a slower, worse handling Elise for more money.
.I can see where Lotus are going with this and to a certain degree, I have to admire their boldness. Let's face it, they are aiming at Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini etc head-on. Perhaps with a nod more towards Porsche than a high end Lambo.
A product line steered by a £20k something Elise will be a thing of the past for Lotus.
Economically, there may be some mileage. The top 5% of earners are getting richer but 'Joe Average' is struggling, so aim at a market where the money is still flowing.
Lotus IMO will be all but unrecognisable to the purists and heart says that's a sad thing but times change and so does the market (and company ambition).
A product line steered by a £20k something Elise will be a thing of the past for Lotus.
Economically, there may be some mileage. The top 5% of earners are getting richer but 'Joe Average' is struggling, so aim at a market where the money is still flowing.
Lotus IMO will be all but unrecognisable to the purists and heart says that's a sad thing but times change and so does the market (and company ambition).
ks to all these press releases and media hype. Let's see the products Lotus. Mr Gear said:
This is a bit of a dilemma for people like Lotus. They know that they can get a more powerful, economical and flexible engine by using hybrid power, but they add weight, which for Lotus should be seen as a no-no.
Its like an urban legend this 'Lotus cars must weigh less than a sheet of paper'. It was a good target and some cars did follow that but it was never the only aim of the company. 80s Lotus cars were not particularly light.Frimley111R said:
Its like an urban legend this 'Lotus cars must weigh less than a sheet of paper'. It was a good target and some cars did follow that but it was never the only aim of the company. 80s Lotus cars were not particularly light.
I actually agree with you, although my quote doesn't really seem that way. Lotus have done it all - from super-lightweight to super-heavyweight with everything in between.[quote]He admitted the sporting variant might actually put out less horsepower once you’d taken away the 74KW (100hp) electric motor, despite a hike in power of the V8 (he mentioned a figure of 640bhp), but he promised the difference would be made up by shedding kilograms
[/quote]
Like shedding a 74Kw electric motor?
[/quote]
Like shedding a 74Kw electric motor?
There is always much talk on here of what Lotus should be doing.
This idea that every car should have north of 500BHP, it doesn't then matter how much the price is , how much fuel it uses , how much the insurance is, how much it costs to repair how severely it depreciates, what the quality, finish and reliability reputation is .......somehow magically it will just sell in vast numbers ! Alright perhaps, for people who have cars bought for them and are not exposed in anyway to ownership costs.
Back in the real world, I wonder if people realise just how few cars Lotus are currently selling in the UK
Here are sales returns for new car sales in October , then year to date and comparison with the same period in October 2010
http://www.am-online.com/new-car-sales-figures/
In Oct 2011 Lotus had just 4 registrations in UK in the month down from 61 last year (itself a pitiful number) for a bit of context on the same sales chart you will see Ford registered 18500 sales and 1/4Million year to date Vauxhall 16000 BMW 9000 in the month.
Year to date 2011 Lotus sold 281 cars down from 448 last year
Even Aston Martin have sold 909 cars in UK YTD
This is when Lotus cars most sell circa £30,000 -£40,000 and a small number of Evoras at £50,000-£60,000.
So why does the new management in a press release say that cars in the £85,000 to £130,000 bracket from them will suddenly start selling at a rate of 4500 cars per year at a time when Europe USA and Japan in particular are sliding in to an economic slump which may last a further decade.
Their new tiny Proton based city car will have a price ticket from £30,000 when an equally frugal city car from Citroen Peugeot, Toyota, Kia and VW starts below £8000. Proton itself sells tiny numbers of cars in UK
I cannot see any logic any of that . There seems to be a philosophy with the new management that price simply has no effect on what they want to make and sell.
Selling 4 cars to American rappers is not some earth shattering achievement.
It is the big luxury high status cars from Mercedes, BMW ,Audi Rolls Royce that are to the taste of the new wealthy classes in China India Russia Brazil and there is no certainty that will hold up as their own export of goods falters .
This idea that every car should have north of 500BHP, it doesn't then matter how much the price is , how much fuel it uses , how much the insurance is, how much it costs to repair how severely it depreciates, what the quality, finish and reliability reputation is .......somehow magically it will just sell in vast numbers ! Alright perhaps, for people who have cars bought for them and are not exposed in anyway to ownership costs.
Back in the real world, I wonder if people realise just how few cars Lotus are currently selling in the UK
Here are sales returns for new car sales in October , then year to date and comparison with the same period in October 2010
http://www.am-online.com/new-car-sales-figures/
In Oct 2011 Lotus had just 4 registrations in UK in the month down from 61 last year (itself a pitiful number) for a bit of context on the same sales chart you will see Ford registered 18500 sales and 1/4Million year to date Vauxhall 16000 BMW 9000 in the month.
Year to date 2011 Lotus sold 281 cars down from 448 last year
Even Aston Martin have sold 909 cars in UK YTD
This is when Lotus cars most sell circa £30,000 -£40,000 and a small number of Evoras at £50,000-£60,000.
So why does the new management in a press release say that cars in the £85,000 to £130,000 bracket from them will suddenly start selling at a rate of 4500 cars per year at a time when Europe USA and Japan in particular are sliding in to an economic slump which may last a further decade.
Their new tiny Proton based city car will have a price ticket from £30,000 when an equally frugal city car from Citroen Peugeot, Toyota, Kia and VW starts below £8000. Proton itself sells tiny numbers of cars in UK
I cannot see any logic any of that . There seems to be a philosophy with the new management that price simply has no effect on what they want to make and sell.
Selling 4 cars to American rappers is not some earth shattering achievement.
It is the big luxury high status cars from Mercedes, BMW ,Audi Rolls Royce that are to the taste of the new wealthy classes in China India Russia Brazil and there is no certainty that will hold up as their own export of goods falters .
RTH said:
There is always much talk on here of what Lotus should be doing.
This idea that every car should have north of 500BHP, it doesn't then matter how much the price is , how much fuel it uses , how much the insurance is, how much it costs to repair how severely it depreciates, what the quality, finish and reliability reputation is .......somehow magically it will just sell in vast numbers ! Alright perhaps, for people who have cars bought for them and are not exposed in anyway to ownership costs.
Back in the real world, I wonder if people realise just how few cars Lotus are currently selling in the UK
Here are sales returns for new car sales in October , then year to date and comparison with the same period in October 2010
http://www.am-online.com/new-car-sales-figures/
In Oct 2011 Lotus had just 4 registrations in UK in the month down from 61 last year (itself a pitiful number) for a bit of context on the same sales chart you will see Ford registered 18500 sales and 1/4Million year to date Vauxhall 16000 BMW 9000 in the month.
Year to date 2011 Lotus sold 281 cars down from 448 last year
Even Aston Martin have sold 909 cars in UK YTD
This is when Lotus cars most sell circa £30,000 -£40,000 and a small number of Evoras at £50,000-£60,000.
So why does the new management in a press release say that cars in the £85,000 to £130,000 bracket from them will suddenly start selling at a rate of 4500 cars per year at a time when Europe USA and Japan in particular are sliding in to an economic slump which may last a further decade.
Their new tiny Proton based city car will have a price ticket from £30,000 when an equally frugal city car from Citroen Peugeot, Toyota, Kia and VW starts below £8000. Proton itself sells tiny numbers of cars in UK
I cannot see any logic any of that . There seems to be a philosophy with the new management that price simply has no effect on what they want to make and sell.
Selling 4 cars to American rappers is not some earth shattering achievement.
It is the big luxury high status cars from Mercedes, BMW ,Audi Rolls Royce that are to the taste of the new wealthy classes in China India Russia Brazil and there is no certainty that will hold up as their own export of goods falters .
So what do Lotus do? Continue to flog the dead horse they are currently sat on, or aim for new markets and keep their fingers crossed that they are doing the right thing? This idea that every car should have north of 500BHP, it doesn't then matter how much the price is , how much fuel it uses , how much the insurance is, how much it costs to repair how severely it depreciates, what the quality, finish and reliability reputation is .......somehow magically it will just sell in vast numbers ! Alright perhaps, for people who have cars bought for them and are not exposed in anyway to ownership costs.
Back in the real world, I wonder if people realise just how few cars Lotus are currently selling in the UK
Here are sales returns for new car sales in October , then year to date and comparison with the same period in October 2010
http://www.am-online.com/new-car-sales-figures/
In Oct 2011 Lotus had just 4 registrations in UK in the month down from 61 last year (itself a pitiful number) for a bit of context on the same sales chart you will see Ford registered 18500 sales and 1/4Million year to date Vauxhall 16000 BMW 9000 in the month.
Year to date 2011 Lotus sold 281 cars down from 448 last year
Even Aston Martin have sold 909 cars in UK YTD
This is when Lotus cars most sell circa £30,000 -£40,000 and a small number of Evoras at £50,000-£60,000.
So why does the new management in a press release say that cars in the £85,000 to £130,000 bracket from them will suddenly start selling at a rate of 4500 cars per year at a time when Europe USA and Japan in particular are sliding in to an economic slump which may last a further decade.
Their new tiny Proton based city car will have a price ticket from £30,000 when an equally frugal city car from Citroen Peugeot, Toyota, Kia and VW starts below £8000. Proton itself sells tiny numbers of cars in UK
I cannot see any logic any of that . There seems to be a philosophy with the new management that price simply has no effect on what they want to make and sell.
Selling 4 cars to American rappers is not some earth shattering achievement.
It is the big luxury high status cars from Mercedes, BMW ,Audi Rolls Royce that are to the taste of the new wealthy classes in China India Russia Brazil and there is no certainty that will hold up as their own export of goods falters .
Edited by Mr Gear on Tuesday 13th December 13:20
"Buy a base model, new-era Lotus and it’ll be a hybrid"
If EVER there was one brand that REALLY could dowithout the "we're pretending to be green" BS, then Louts was it...
sad.
If people really wanted to be "green" whilst driving, they'd just never accelerate... but that would defeat the very purpose of a "drivers car"...
oh, wait, they've....
If EVER there was one brand that REALLY could dowithout the "we're pretending to be green" BS, then Louts was it...
sad.
If people really wanted to be "green" whilst driving, they'd just never accelerate... but that would defeat the very purpose of a "drivers car"...
oh, wait, they've....
Pierscoe1 said:
"Buy a base model, new-era Lotus and it’ll be a hybrid"
If EVER there was one brand that REALLY could dowithout the "we're pretending to be green" BS, then Louts was it...
sad.
If people really wanted to be "green" whilst driving, they'd just never accelerate... but that would defeat the very purpose of a "drivers car"...
oh, wait, they've....
Who said it was about being "green"?If EVER there was one brand that REALLY could dowithout the "we're pretending to be green" BS, then Louts was it...
sad.
If people really wanted to be "green" whilst driving, they'd just never accelerate... but that would defeat the very purpose of a "drivers car"...
oh, wait, they've....
This is a popular misconception amongst the ignorant that hybrid = green.
A hybrid drivetrain allows you to lower fuel consumption or boost power and in some cases both. It allows designers complete flexibility in how the car develops power.
Frimley111R said:
LOL. Yeah, because cars can be designed and built and on sale in 'minutes'. Get real.
I hear that to design, build mules, calibrate, produce prototypes, productionise, design and order tooling and attain type approval can take 30 or even as long as 40 minutes!God I hate these whinges.
How long do people actually think this takes?
That's not a go at you, Frimley, I'm agreeing. Didn't hit "quote all".
Mr Gear said:
Who said it was about being "green"?
This is a popular misconception amongst the ignorant that hybrid = green.
A hybrid drivetrain allows you to lower fuel consumption or boost power and in some cases both. It allows designers complete flexibility in how the car develops power.
This is a popular misconception amongst the ignorant that hybrid = green.
A hybrid drivetrain allows you to lower fuel consumption or boost power and in some cases both. It allows designers complete flexibility in how the car develops power.
Imagine a hybrid car (two engines) but with a small petrol engine to produce electricity.
Then you can have 4 electric motors, one on each of the wheels.
The possibilities are endless...
ZesPak said:
Imagine a hybrid car (two engines) but with a small petrol engine to produce electricity.
Then you can have 4 electric motors, one on each of the wheels.
The possibilities are endless...
boobles said:
thewheelman said:
boobles said:
Mannginger said:
A £30k supermini?
Presume that's like Aston's Cygnet? A sop to the EU manufacturer emissions rather than a serious vehicle?
Presume that's like Aston's Cygnet? A sop to the EU manufacturer emissions rather than a serious vehicle?
This is correct. Aston Martin have done it aswel.
Mitsubishi i-MiEV - from £28,990.00 (£23,990.00 with government subsidy)
Nissan Leaf - £30990 (£25990 with government subsidy)
boobles said:
FlossyThePig said:
A £30k supermini?
Mitsubishi i-MiEV - from £28,990.00 (£23,990.00 with government subsidy)
Nissan Leaf - £30990 (£25990 with government subsidy)
The trouble is, people are actually buying these things & paying 30k!!! Mitsubishi i-MiEV - from £28,990.00 (£23,990.00 with government subsidy)
Nissan Leaf - £30990 (£25990 with government subsidy)
Once they have done 600 000 miles, replaced the batteries twice, it's all free miles from there!
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