RE: PH Blog: go with the flow

[TonyHetherington]

I agree with someone above who said about the Ford KA. My Lotus dealership had one (as base spec as it gets) as a loan car, so when my car was in that's what I had.

I loved it!! The 1 litre (or was it 900cc?) engine meant "flow" was so very important.

[nagsheadwarrior]

Very well said!

Getting the car to road balance is important too, my Capri and my old 205cti are/were great fun to drive,the 205 would skip though the lanes and the Capris great on the more open a/b stuff but cumbersome in the tight twisty stuff.

[Rawwr]

Article said:

I've a feeling with cars like the Toyobaru and a new Boxster on the way 2012 might be a bit of a watershed year where outright speed and spec sheet willy waggling might, finally, take a bit of a back seat. I hope so.

It won't. You only need to read the threads we had on the GT86 to see how many people missed the point of it; harping on about it only having 200bhp and needing bigger wheels, tyres and a ridiculous body kit for it to be taken as a serious proposition.

Pistonheads is basically full of liars. Hordes of people in Le Mans t-shirts claiming it's all about the drive but totally unwilling to sacrifice their 1.9TDi Teutonic hack or their 1,000bhp monster barge in return for a decent drive.

I'm willing to bet certain and particular important parts of my anatomy that most people on here - especially of late - wouldn't be able to feel or judge flow if their lives depended on it and it makes me a sad panda.

[Rawwr]

TonyHetherington said:

I agree with someone above who said about the Ford KA. My Lotus dealership had one (as base spec as it gets) as a loan car, so when my car was in that's what I had.

I loved it!! The 1 litre (or was it 900cc?) engine meant "flow" was so very important.

It's typically a 1.3 Endura or Duratec. Funnily enough, I got given one for a week whilst the 340R was being put back together. It was hilarious. It was so hilarious that once I'd sold the 340R, I replaced it with a Ka. People never really understood that move.

[alexliza7]

Hello guys. I am new here, very nice article.

Greetings Alex

[the_stoat]

Jduncan78963 said:

Mercedes C180 Touring Sport Edition. Pitlochry to Braemar on a Friday evening in summer. One of the most memorable drives of my life.

One of my favourite routes

[jimbro1000]

There is a school of thought that says if you are in "point,squirt,break,turn" mode you aren't trying hard enough - of course it could also be argued that if you are trying hard enough you are also trying very hard to a) kill yourself, b) scare the daylights out of everyone else on the road, c) get your self locked away for a long, long time, possibly in a nice room with quilted walls and complimentary suit featuring lots of straps and buckles.

One of the greatest pleasures in motoring is taking a modestly powered car and making driving it quickly, this is what makes a drive enjoyable (provided you don't get stuck in traffic in which case it just becomes frustrating). If all you want is the buzz of accelerating hard and braking hard then you're better off at a quarter mile strip.

Add in a little character to the car like a live axle and RWD (think Mk1/2 Escort) or a little excess weight that takes skill to tame and the fun increases (as does the risk), the buzz is in taming an unruly beast and making it dance. The old school hot-hatch is firmly in this category - just enough power to get into trouble but not so much that you can do so casually, you still have to work the car and push its limits.

I've driven some pretty amazing machinery in my time but some of the most fun I've ever had has been where the power/handling balance was firmly in the handling camp. My old TVR was quite the reverse and while it was great fun (absolutely no argument there) trying to hustle it down the backroads was tantamount to a deathwish. A few pieces of stray gravel washed onto the road or a bit of diesel spill and you'd be adorning the landscape in lots of pieces. Do the same in an old GTi and you'd generally know about a problem earlier, have a better chance of doing something about it and if it did all go wrong the odds of walking away that much higher. You'd still make good progress and the car would really stretch its legs - try the same in a V8 engine trev and all you'd be doing is kicking the throttle periodically intermixed with heating the brakes up.

All that said one of the best drives I've ever had was a convoy drive across country - Porsche 911, TVR Chim and a Jag XJR. It took just the right type of road to do it though and it took a few hours just to find that bit of road and in the end that was more by accident than design.

[MrKipling43]

doggydog33 said:

Some magazines call it 'Evo-ness'.
It's the fun factor that's needed.

Pug 106

You beat me to it! I LOVED my 106.

[herebebeasties]

My supercharged Elise flows less than my old boggo-K-series one, partly because you arrive at corners going so much faster. You'd expect it to be "better" on a fast B-road, but instead it's merely more intimidating, even if it covers ground a little bit faster. The near-doubling of horsepower doesn't really make it a better car on the road, although it does remove the overtaking frustration I used to sometimes get with the old one.

[DeadMeat_UK]

I've just had my 5th drive with an IAM instructor. My ability make the car flow has gone up by a large percentage as a result. I cover roads more smoothly and at a higher average speed than before, and much less pointy/squirty.

I'd heartily recommend it to anyone who enjoys these types of drives and want to get even more out of them.

[Matt UK]

Good article, enjoyed the read.

I went from a £1,500 MX5 to a 300bhp/tonne Caterham and on the b-roads I now have less 'road flow'.

I do have more 'track flow' though, so don't regret the purchase - but a thought-provoking article.

[clarki]

My evo FQ400 had masses of ooomph but I just couldnt get into a nice rythme with it whatsoever; foot down, nothing, nothing, nothing...all hell breaks loose...change gear, nothing, nothing - you get the picture.

Sold it, bought an R26R - much less speed but much, much more driving pleasure. Perfect for me and my driving style.

Oh, nice piece btw.

[Numeric]

I loved my Rover 75 tourers for just this reason - they ignored all the rubbish roads and flowed along at a very quick lick if asked, could flow to Vienna in a day or flow through some tight Cotwold twists, and my aversion to the ZT-T alternative came from their very lack of flow due to over hard springs! Many things were faster but few so utterly "nice".

But strange how flow can come in odd places. We had a Cooper S amd it was a hoot but never flowed - the new JCW seems to have a softer set suspension (I think they must have softened all the Minis as an S I drove was also less sharp)and while I miss it a tiny bit, this one now flows and is a much nicer day to day car as a result.

[Reardy Mister]

Rawwr said:

Ford Ka has flow, which is good because it kinda needs it.

After spanking a few, including one around Mallorca for a week, I concur.

The last time I had "flow" was last Wedneday night on the A346/A338 from Marlbroough to Salisbury, coming back late in a rented Seat Leon FR 1.4TSi. Epic drive and a smashing little car, let down only by woeful brakes and a tad too much road noise. But lordy it was fun. I even turned the music off.

Edited by Reardy Mister on Monday 9th January 10:40

[ceebmoj]

herebebeasties said:

My supercharged Elise flows less than my old boggo-K-series one, partly because you arrive at corners going so much faster. You'd expect it to be "better" on a fast B-road, but instead it's merely more intimidating, even if it covers ground a little bit faster. The near-doubling of horsepower doesn't really make it a better car on the road, although it does remove the overtaking frustration I used to sometimes get with the old one.

I wanted to put a Honda in my Elise but was worried that I would end up feeling like this. As others have said you just end up getting to corners so much faster and in my case with out the skill once you are there.

[donna180]

TonyHetherington said:

I agree with someone above who said about the Ford KA. My Lotus dealership had one (as base spec as it gets) as a loan car, so when my car was in that's what I had.

I loved it!! The 1 litre (or was it 900cc?) engine meant "flow" was so very important.

They're brilliant handling cars with near 'sud levels of response/agility and nice linear steering.... Maybe not much grip but Ford did a great job on the development.

Agree about flow - and some cars are simply too fast to be driven enthusiastically in the UK. I'm sure a base Boxster/Cayman is as much fun (or maybe more) as any Porsche in the UK for 99% of the time.

[Schnellmann]

Rawwr said:

It's typically a 1.3 Endura or Duratec. Funnily enough, I got given one for a week whilst the 340R was being put back together. It was hilarious. It was so hilarious that once I'd sold the 340R, I replaced it with a Ka. People never really understood that move.

You get a thumbs up from me for having the courage to follow your convinctions.

[LotusOmega375D]

doggydog33 said:

Some magazines call it 'Evo-ness'.

With the notable exception of EVO, what magazines would they be?

[PaulMoor]

I have been wondering when this moment would come for a while. There is only so much power you can get out of an engine that you can use on the road. For a while we have been headding towards that point. 30 years ago there was huge jumps in power and refinment, but for the past ten it has been smaller and smaller jumps, with even top end cars putting on only 10-15 HP (from a total of 500).

Hopefully now car makers will start working to make cars lighter, better handeling and more usable on the road.

If, however, you want to garentee "flow" get a bike. Even one of the sports 125/250's will make you feel like a hero on a back road in a way most cars never will.

[Richard330s]

Itsallicanafford said:

100% agree and a great theme... initially learnt the concept in an 'E' reg land rover 90, to make any progress you had to make sure you carried as much speed as possible through corner and really concentrate on not loosing momentum as with a lack of power (or excess of weight) it was very hard to get it back. Now, 15 years later, it my Mk1 Mx-5 that further enhances this, just in a more nimble way, it the same idea.

I completely agree. Well said about Land Rover motoring and flow.
I found 'pootling' a more appropriate term and never without a great smile on my face while driving.
I had a B Reg Land Rover, 90 Van. Flow was very important to cope with the lack of power from the N/A diesel engine which meant any road was anticipated keenly and inputs on the brakes were avoided wherever possible, just in case you did not have another spare half an hour to build back up to 50mph and also to avoid paying for the fuel!

Should be part of the driving test, as you never stop adjusting the wheel like a WRC car in the 80's due to the wobbly steering.
much fun though.