RE: PH Blog: Politeness costs nothing...
Discussion
I hate pay and display car parks. The town in which I live (Maldon, if anyone cares) has the machines in every car park, but thankfully they're the type without registration numbers. It says not transferrable, but no-one listens to that. I quite agree that it's needlessly mean to deny making someone's day just that little bit better.
On top of this, there used to be a dozen or so spaces that were free for up to 30 minutes' use, but this was cut to four or five a couple of months back. All that happens now is people end up queuing for them, causing chaos.
To be fair to them, however, they did scrap the parking charges for the Saturdays in December and don't charge on Sundays.
On top of this, there used to be a dozen or so spaces that were free for up to 30 minutes' use, but this was cut to four or five a couple of months back. All that happens now is people end up queuing for them, causing chaos.
To be fair to them, however, they did scrap the parking charges for the Saturdays in December and don't charge on Sundays.
My old home in K&C is now I hear merging its services with Westminster and Hammersmith, no doubt to bolster flagging economies in those decrepit also Tory boroughs with the money that K&C has always wisely spent for the benefit of their residents. I especially appreciated when instead of getting a Prius like all the other councils they got a Bentley - I'm not being scarcastic, dash right too, K&C is a wealthy place, I also had 2 bin collections a WEEK and could park anywhere in the borough from Harvey Nics to the Kings Road to Notting Hill. And every year the council seemed to have a surplus of cash.
The really lovely caring people who are devoted to serving their local community often seem to get trampled under the party politics as in this case, while those who pay for it see all the little things that make life better submerged.
And sorry for getting all bitter!
The really lovely caring people who are devoted to serving their local community often seem to get trampled under the party politics as in this case, while those who pay for it see all the little things that make life better submerged.
And sorry for getting all bitter!
Motorrad said:
10 Pence Short said:
Is it unfair of councils to monetise assets they rightfully own?
We own them, not the council, they run them on our behalf and as Harris has pointed out this sort of policy increases the amount of hassle and bad feeling that there is already too much of.Surely most people would like their services run on the basis of improving life for everyone?
Put it this way- there is a finite Financial pot from within which they have to provide services. You cannot deny they have to provide services, right?
If the contents of the pot can't pay for the services, they either have to increase the contents of the pot, or provide less services.
Everybody on the receiving end of Local Authority services will feel their cause is equally or more justified than anybody else's, that's human nature. Nobody wants to be on the losing end, yet nobody wants to pay more. See the conundrum?
When councils make difficult decisions, they're bound to upset one group or another.
I don't see it as harmful or unfair if the council choose to maximise their income from parking spaces. The likelihood is that drivers using those spaces entered the car park knowing they could afford to use it (why would you enter it otherwise? Surely not on the off chance some kind soul is going to give you their yet-to-expire ticket?). That the Local Authority chooses to close a loophole, for people to avoid paying for a parking space they knew they were likely to anyway, is hardly something we should spend time bleating about.
If we wanted LAs to improve goodwill with the motorist, there are plenty of other areas the average motorist could target. The abandonment of free on street parking, the wilful deterring of motorists from town centres by abusing traffic flow and regulations, the almost universal lack of maintainance to large swathes of LA controlled roads and the list goes on.
Not being able to swap a free 20 minutes of parking for a space I should rightfully have expected to pay for is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things.
10 Pence Short said:
By your rationale, the Local Authorities own 'nothing', then?
Correct, we own the property, they manage it for us.You have some valid points regarding maximising revenue however I feel this isn't about making more money but just another way of inconveniencing car users. Likewise phone parking, I don't carry a mobile phone so therefore I cannot park?- that's total BS.
Absolutely, nailed on, I like to do this, I like my kids see me do this, I am no model citizen but along with picking up your Dogs outtput, not making a racket, politeness, helping someone in distress it all makes society work despite the 
s that we encounter day to day, little things like that brighten your day and make you think that not everyone is out to rob, batter or bum you.
So the local authortity doesnt want me to pass my PAID ticket to another person, who I may or may not know then I assume we will be provided with cones to cordon off our space until the ticket has elapsed as otherwise the authority will be collecting twice for that space for the remainder of the time, I cant get two cars in it so why should they get double money, potentially treble as has been mentioned, the machines give no change so sometimes you end up paying a quid for 60 mins parking that is normally 60p.
I take my bike in as its free but not really possible when you have a trolley full of Sainsbury's stuff, they are as bad, spent £29.80 in there the other day and apparently that was 20p short to get a reund on my parking, usually spend best part of £200 but that doesnt matter, not bothered about sixty pence but its the principle.
Then they will moan that town centres are dying in favour of out of town shopping.
s that we encounter day to day, little things like that brighten your day and make you think that not everyone is out to rob, batter or bum you.So the local authortity doesnt want me to pass my PAID ticket to another person, who I may or may not know then I assume we will be provided with cones to cordon off our space until the ticket has elapsed as otherwise the authority will be collecting twice for that space for the remainder of the time, I cant get two cars in it so why should they get double money, potentially treble as has been mentioned, the machines give no change so sometimes you end up paying a quid for 60 mins parking that is normally 60p.
I take my bike in as its free but not really possible when you have a trolley full of Sainsbury's stuff, they are as bad, spent £29.80 in there the other day and apparently that was 20p short to get a reund on my parking, usually spend best part of £200 but that doesnt matter, not bothered about sixty pence but its the principle.
Then they will moan that town centres are dying in favour of out of town shopping.
10 Pence Short said:
Put it this way- there is a finite Financial pot from within which they have to provide services. You cannot deny they have to provide services, right?
They could provide fewer services, more economically.10 Pence Short said:
Everybody on the receiving end of Local Authority services will feel their cause is equally or more justified than anybody else's, that's human nature. Nobody wants to be on the losing end, yet nobody wants to pay more. See the conundrum?
In theory if taxes/charges were lower, people/businesses would have more cash in their pockets to procure the services that they particually value. Also, by 'voting with their wallets' competition would emerge to drive down costs.10 Pence Short said:
I don't see it as harmful or unfair if the council choose to maximise their income from parking spaces. The likelihood is that drivers using those spaces entered the car park knowing they could afford to use it (why would you enter it otherwise? Surely not on the off chance some kind soul is going to give you their yet-to-expire ticket?). That the Local Authority chooses to close a loophole, for people to avoid paying for a parking space they knew they were likely to anyway, is hardly something we should spend time bleating about.
The problem is that making parking expensive/unpleasant discourages people from going into towns. Personally I avoid one of my local towns specifically because of the parking charges, the fact they fined my wife when she had purchased a valid ticket.There is a very good reason for the non transferable nature of parking tickets. They form a contract, and you cannot transfer the contract to a third person. It not only protects the car park owners, but you too. If anything happens to your car you have a level of protection and right to comeback. The exact details depends on what happend and where, but the owner must take "reasonable care" of your car.
As for the politeness I think there is sometimes not enough, but sometimes there is too much. Too often people will slam there brakes on at 30mph to let someone pull out. Sodding annoying, and a danger to anyone behind who might get run in too.
As for the politeness I think there is sometimes not enough, but sometimes there is too much. Too often people will slam there brakes on at 30mph to let someone pull out. Sodding annoying, and a danger to anyone behind who might get run in too.
Alfa159Ti said:
Good call Chris - this is so true.
I think there is a definite decline of manners and courtesy on the road. I always wave or flash people to say thanks and regularly let people merge or join in front of me on my slog into work every morning.
Unfortunately as many fellow PHers will atest, when you drive a car perceived as a 'flash Harry' motor incidents of aggression and discourtesy ramp up enormously.
I drive a new shape Alfa Spider into Manchester city centre every day in thick traffic. Obviously it is no exotic, but you don't see many on the road so the car seems to get rather a lot of attention. Unfortunately for every pointing child or enthusiastic petrol head, there are a horde of people determined to try to cause an accident it seems.
People just love to tail gate me, even in rush hour traffic. Heaven forbid I should leave a cars length gap in front to gently keep idling forward rather than constantly being on the accelerator or the brake in thick traffic or travel. Should I do 30mph in a 30mph zone people following me seem to degenerate into crazed maniacs, pressing right up behind me. When it comes to a lane merge situation people would rather die than let me in, even when it is clearly my priority. I had a guy in a Passat nearly drive into me this morning in a desperate bid to prevent me merging in front of him despite him coming from a full cars length behind. When he realised that this was not possible without physically driving into me he proceeded to tailgate me for two miles in thick traffic. WTF??
The other one I see often is when you see someone else indicating to change lanes to move into a gap in the lane next to them, and the car in the adjacent lane then accelerates into the gap to shut the lane changer out. What is wrong with people?? You were happy for there to be a gap there but as soon as another motorist tries to change lanes you deliberately deny them.
By contrast on a journey the other day a car was driving in the dark with no lights on, so I gave them a few flashes and turned mine on and off again quickly til they realised and gave me a friendly wave. These little incidents of connection with your fellow drivers share good will, but seem to happen more and more rarely which is a shame.
Sorry for the essay - glad I got that off my chest.
Yes drivers in general seem to be getting more and more aggressive and rude. Took my S2000 out for a run last night and a Corsa wheelspan off the lights as quickly as possible to stop me using the filter lane to get ahead of him. I wasn't even trying to overtake. It's refreshing to have someone let you in!I think there is a definite decline of manners and courtesy on the road. I always wave or flash people to say thanks and regularly let people merge or join in front of me on my slog into work every morning.
Unfortunately as many fellow PHers will atest, when you drive a car perceived as a 'flash Harry' motor incidents of aggression and discourtesy ramp up enormously.
I drive a new shape Alfa Spider into Manchester city centre every day in thick traffic. Obviously it is no exotic, but you don't see many on the road so the car seems to get rather a lot of attention. Unfortunately for every pointing child or enthusiastic petrol head, there are a horde of people determined to try to cause an accident it seems.
People just love to tail gate me, even in rush hour traffic. Heaven forbid I should leave a cars length gap in front to gently keep idling forward rather than constantly being on the accelerator or the brake in thick traffic or travel. Should I do 30mph in a 30mph zone people following me seem to degenerate into crazed maniacs, pressing right up behind me. When it comes to a lane merge situation people would rather die than let me in, even when it is clearly my priority. I had a guy in a Passat nearly drive into me this morning in a desperate bid to prevent me merging in front of him despite him coming from a full cars length behind. When he realised that this was not possible without physically driving into me he proceeded to tailgate me for two miles in thick traffic. WTF??
The other one I see often is when you see someone else indicating to change lanes to move into a gap in the lane next to them, and the car in the adjacent lane then accelerates into the gap to shut the lane changer out. What is wrong with people?? You were happy for there to be a gap there but as soon as another motorist tries to change lanes you deliberately deny them.
By contrast on a journey the other day a car was driving in the dark with no lights on, so I gave them a few flashes and turned mine on and off again quickly til they realised and gave me a friendly wave. These little incidents of connection with your fellow drivers share good will, but seem to happen more and more rarely which is a shame.
Sorry for the essay - glad I got that off my chest.
britsportscars said:
Yes drivers in general seem to be getting more and more aggressive and rude. Took my S2000 out for a run last night and a Corsa wheelspan off the lights as quickly as possible to stop me using the filter lane to get ahead of him. I wasn't even trying to overtake. It's refreshing to have someone let you in!
He was probably a chav and wanted a race. Being a corsa and all.... 
This is one of those mildly infuriating (can you be mildly in a fury?!) things that local government does without thought for the consequences. Therefore, it is important that I, the common man, do not become so easily defeated by such lack of care for the very fabric of our society, and fight back on behalf of the people of Britain, or certainly in support of very nice looking ladies in need of a ticket in car parks at the very least.
Some cheap number plates, which I will forthwith hand over a couple of with some blu tack to go with my ticket, will make local and national politicians sit up, take notice and change policy on this matter.
Vive la revolution!
Some cheap number plates, which I will forthwith hand over a couple of with some blu tack to go with my ticket, will make local and national politicians sit up, take notice and change policy on this matter.
Vive la revolution!
I agree with our blogger, but i dont always carry cash. I do however live in Cornwall and every carpark is P&D! None of them take cards, but the council does have a deal with RinGo a worldwide parking company (sorry for the plug there) who you can pay quoting your full vehicle reg and a four digit parking location number over the phone or (as i now do) using an app on my iphone.
Yes it costs a bit more than having cash but then i dont need to park, find a cash machine buy something to get change and then get back to the car to try and beat the parking gestapo.
But when i do buy a ticket i do like to give it away if i can.
carpark is P&D! None of them take cards, but the council does have a deal with RinGo a worldwide parking company (sorry for the plug there) who you can pay quoting your full vehicle reg and a four digit parking location number over the phone or (as i now do) using an app on my iphone. Yes it costs a bit more than having cash but then i dont need to park, find a cash machine buy something to get change and then get back to the car to try and beat the parking gestapo.
But when i do buy a ticket i do like to give it away if i can.
You've made the mistake of bothering going anywhere where you have to pay for the privilege of parking so you can make use of the local shops and services which make many times more money for the council anyway.
Wouldn't it be more polite for the councils to offer free parking for 2hrs so you can go and do more shopping, improving trade in the local area, thus boosting the council and central government incomes, and making the area generally nicer due to higher wealth input.
Ah sorry I forgot this is retarded UK
I think 75% of council employees who can make a difference are jobsworth cretins who don't like change, probably over the age of 50, and think the world is still as it was in the 70's and 80's...
They are making cities and towns the places where you just can't be arsed going any more.
Dave
Wouldn't it be more polite for the councils to offer free parking for 2hrs so you can go and do more shopping, improving trade in the local area, thus boosting the council and central government incomes, and making the area generally nicer due to higher wealth input.
Ah sorry I forgot this is retarded UK
I think 75% of council employees who can make a difference are jobsworth cretins who don't like change, probably over the age of 50, and think the world is still as it was in the 70's and 80's...
They are making cities and towns the places where you just can't be arsed going any more.
Dave
KB_S1 said:
Being courteous on the road goes hand in hand with caring about your own driving and safety.
The more that you actively observe and analyse the road and other drivers the more likely you are to leave space and acknowledge others helpful gestures or positioning.
Unfortunately this is becoming less common in general on the road.
As stated in the article, the authorities don't help this scenario. Driving in Edinburgh inevitably leads to conflict and aggro due to the continuous switching of lane markings on 2 lane sections of road. If you do not know the section well it is impossible to not be caught out by a lane that is marked straight ahead changing to left or right turn only, after you have passed a point where merging is difficult.
Fortunately the last time I had to use an outdoor car park in Glasgow I was delighted to find numerous people trading in tickets. A white van man offered me an all day pass as he had finished his job for the day, in return I passed that to someone as I left. Just as well because I couldn't get the machine to take my change.
I've lived and worked in both Glasgow and Edinburgh (currently living in Glasgow and working in Edinburgh...) and have noticed a generally friendly atmosphere in Glasgow when driving/ parking etc too!The more that you actively observe and analyse the road and other drivers the more likely you are to leave space and acknowledge others helpful gestures or positioning.
Unfortunately this is becoming less common in general on the road.
As stated in the article, the authorities don't help this scenario. Driving in Edinburgh inevitably leads to conflict and aggro due to the continuous switching of lane markings on 2 lane sections of road. If you do not know the section well it is impossible to not be caught out by a lane that is marked straight ahead changing to left or right turn only, after you have passed a point where merging is difficult.
Fortunately the last time I had to use an outdoor car park in Glasgow I was delighted to find numerous people trading in tickets. A white van man offered me an all day pass as he had finished his job for the day, in return I passed that to someone as I left. Just as well because I couldn't get the machine to take my change.
Most councils could quite easliy cut budgets, and costs without the loss of services - How? Profit related pay for councillors? Pay them the minimum wage, and let them earn the rest, rather than assuming they are going to get a suitably big pay packet.
Same goes for MP's.
Also, many councils will have a procurement policy which says they have to go to a group of pre authorised preferred suppliers. All this does is create a cartel. Those preferred suppliers all speak with one another, and then set the prices they are going to charge councils. However, in many cases, if you go outside of this agreement, you can use market forces to drive down the costs of purchases and services.
Same goes for MP's.
Also, many councils will have a procurement policy which says they have to go to a group of pre authorised preferred suppliers. All this does is create a cartel. Those preferred suppliers all speak with one another, and then set the prices they are going to charge councils. However, in many cases, if you go outside of this agreement, you can use market forces to drive down the costs of purchases and services.
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