RE: PH Fleet: VW Golf GTI Edition 35
Discussion
aka_kerrly said:
elementad said:
"all rounder all rounder". Who wants an "all rounder" at £34,000 apart from reps?
Lots of people want a all rounder. A car that can be driven long or short distances in comfort, a car that can be given to the wife to run to town in on Saturday and yet blasted around the Brecon Beacons on Sunday with mountain bikes in the back. A car that doesn't shout I have too much money nor I am a cheapskate, a car that can turn up at Silverstone and be used/abused on track or left in the car park and not look out of place. Sounds like an expensive all you can eat buffet for folk who can't make their minds up
Riggers said:
Everybody: It's not £34K it's £31K!!
Also, FWIW, a Cupra R is not identical but for the manual gearbox and more power - it's noticeably less composed over challenging roads and generally not as nice a place to be (Least that's how our old fleet Cupra felt compared with the Golf. Not saying it isn't a perfectly decent proposition, mind...
Riggers, there is no point posting facts about this car, everyone knows it's 34k and for that you could have a GTR/355 on your drive. article said:
List price new: £31,030 (including £1770 infotainment pack and £440 for parking sensors front and rear)
Delete those options and it's £28,820....Also, FWIW, a Cupra R is not identical but for the manual gearbox and more power - it's noticeably less composed over challenging roads and generally not as nice a place to be (Least that's how our old fleet Cupra felt compared with the Golf. Not saying it isn't a perfectly decent proposition, mind...
I knew the article wouldn't work with the "mob" when I read it.
Personally I think it's a great car and well worth 28k list price plus you'll get a discount from that.
In fact Broadspeed will sell you a manual 3 door edition 35 for 26k not that anyone will take any notice on here, after all it's 34k man!
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 18th January 15:25
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 18th January 15:26
toppstuff said:
Thats not the point.
Of course VAG are correct to price their different brands at different levels. But it would be a mistake to assume that the extra money paid for a different brand is all going toward making a better car. When so many of the VAG cars share technology and components, a lot of the "perceived extra quality" is really down to marketing and a softer finish on some plastics.
The Skoda Octavia VRs example is perfectly worthy.
Given that you can pick up a new VRS for less than 20k, with the same engine and gearbox, I would be really interested in a back to back comparison test to see if the Golf is really worth 50% more money.
Come on PH, how about a comparison test and value for money analysis?
Indeed the VRS is a fine car. It's just not quite as good as the Golf GTI. List of £20k for the Skoda and £25k for the 'normal' Golf (16k and 23k via drivethedeal). Of course VAG are correct to price their different brands at different levels. But it would be a mistake to assume that the extra money paid for a different brand is all going toward making a better car. When so many of the VAG cars share technology and components, a lot of the "perceived extra quality" is really down to marketing and a softer finish on some plastics.
The Skoda Octavia VRs example is perfectly worthy.
Given that you can pick up a new VRS for less than 20k, with the same engine and gearbox, I would be really interested in a back to back comparison test to see if the Golf is really worth 50% more money.
Come on PH, how about a comparison test and value for money analysis?
Whether the difference is justified comes down to personal preference - is the quality gain (perceived or otherwise), residuals (I'm assuming the Golf holds it's value better) and small dynamic edge worth the difference?
toppstuff said:
Come on PH, how about a comparison test and value for money analysis?
Because we're not WhatCar? ? ;-)Joking aside, I've had plenty of time behind the wheel of Golf GTIs, Skoda Octavia vRSes and various fast Leons... so I'll give you a quick 'driving impression comparison' from memory (VFM is, I freely admit, an entirely different matter)
To summarise: VWs feel more composed than the others, Skodas more spacious but a little less responsive and lively chassis-wise, and and SEATs are set up to feel more aggressive and faster, but feel more ragged as a consequence.
Yes, they use the same bag of components as one another, but it's how the engineers fine-tune the engine, chassis and ancillaries that makes them feel distinct from one another.
If I may make a rather clumsy analogy, if you were to give me and Heston Blumenthal exactly the same ingredients and told us to make a cottage pie, the results would be rather different (Mine would be nicer, obviously)...
Riggers said:
Delete those options and it's £28,820....
Also, FWIW, a Cupra R is not identical but for the manual gearbox and more power - it's noticeably less composed over challenging roads and generally not as nice a place to be (Least that's how our old fleet Cupra felt compared with the Golf. Not saying it isn't a perfectly decent proposition, mind...
Hang on a cotton pickin minute...Also, FWIW, a Cupra R is not identical but for the manual gearbox and more power - it's noticeably less composed over challenging roads and generally not as nice a place to be (Least that's how our old fleet Cupra felt compared with the Golf. Not saying it isn't a perfectly decent proposition, mind...
You are hardly going to delete parking sensors and a decent stereo touch-screen jobby are you. Makes no sense for a 30k class car. If anything, you are more likely to expect leather and maybe heated seats - in which case £34k is probably not far off.
sanctum said:
Price says it all realy, and it's no better if you look at it on as a company car either attracting a hefty £277 per month off your payslip if you're in the 40% tax bracket! £10000 lost to the tax man over 3 years of ownership? No, I don't think so.
If I were on a company car scheme I'd pay that so as not to have to drive a diesel. Riggers said:
toppstuff said:
Come on PH, how about a comparison test and value for money analysis?
Because we're not WhatCar? ? ;-)Joking aside, I've had plenty of time behind the wheel of Golf GTIs, Skoda Octavia vRSes and various fast Leons... so I'll give you a quick 'driving impression comparison' from memory (VFM is, I freely admit, an entirely different matter)
To summarise: VWs feel more composed than the others, Skodas more spacious but a little less responsive and lively chassis-wise, and and SEATs are set up to feel more aggressive and faster, but feel more ragged as a consequence.
Yes, they use the same bag of components as one another, but it's how the engineers fine-tune the engine, chassis and ancillaries that makes them feel distinct from one another.
If I may make a rather clumsy analogy, if you were to give me and Heston Blumenthal exactly the same ingredients and told us to make a cottage pie, the results would be rather different (Mine would be nicer, obviously)...
Heston's meal would be £35, your meal would be £25
toppstuff said:
Hang on a cotton pickin minute...
You are hardly going to delete parking sensors and a decent stereo touch-screen jobby are you. Makes no sense for a 30k class car. If anything, you are more likely to expect leather and maybe heated seats - in which case £34k is probably not far off.
Which are both included in the Ed35 spec as standard You are hardly going to delete parking sensors and a decent stereo touch-screen jobby are you. Makes no sense for a 30k class car. If anything, you are more likely to expect leather and maybe heated seats - in which case £34k is probably not far off.
kambites said:
Out of interest, are the Golf's wheels any lighter than the VRS's? I was astounded by how heavy the (18 inch) wheels that came on our VRS were and how much better it handles on smaller (lighter) ones.
I'll weigh them for you when our 18s arrive (should be soon). Alternatively I might just ask VW... Riggers said:
kambites said:
Out of interest, are the Golf's wheels any lighter than the VRS's? I was astounded by how heavy the (18 inch) wheels that came on our VRS were and how much better it handles on smaller (lighter) ones.
I'll weigh them for you when our 18s arrive (should be soon). Alternatively I might just ask VW... Riggers said:
Because we're not WhatCar? ? ;-)
Joking aside, I've had plenty of time behind the wheel of Golf GTIs, Skoda Octavia vRSes and various fast Leons... so I'll give you a quick 'driving impression comparison' from memory (VFM is, I freely admit, an entirely different matter)
To summarise: VWs feel more composed than the others, Skodas more spacious but a little less responsive and lively chassis-wise, and and SEATs are set up to feel more aggressive and faster, but feel more ragged as a consequence.
Yes, they use the same bag of components as one another, but it's how the engineers fine-tune the engine, chassis and ancillaries that makes them feel distinct from one another.
If I may make a rather clumsy analogy, if you were to give me and Heston Blumenthal exactly the same ingredients and told us to make a cottage pie, the results would be rather different (Mine would be nicer, obviously)...
Nah, its all cobblers in my book. Joking aside, I've had plenty of time behind the wheel of Golf GTIs, Skoda Octavia vRSes and various fast Leons... so I'll give you a quick 'driving impression comparison' from memory (VFM is, I freely admit, an entirely different matter)
To summarise: VWs feel more composed than the others, Skodas more spacious but a little less responsive and lively chassis-wise, and and SEATs are set up to feel more aggressive and faster, but feel more ragged as a consequence.
Yes, they use the same bag of components as one another, but it's how the engineers fine-tune the engine, chassis and ancillaries that makes them feel distinct from one another.
If I may make a rather clumsy analogy, if you were to give me and Heston Blumenthal exactly the same ingredients and told us to make a cottage pie, the results would be rather different (Mine would be nicer, obviously)...
Look, you can get a pre registered Skoda VRS with nominal mileage for £16k.
Imagine you were offered:
Option 1 : A Golf GTI
Option 2 : A Skoda VRS plus £14,000 in cash stuffed in a tesco bag on the back seat.
In the real world, where cars are not freely lent from nice car companies and you have to pay for them, what would you choose?
Think of all the Heston meals at the Fat Duck you could buy with the extra. Or a Caterham and some change. Or a holiday with your mates to Vegas. Or a boat. Or a lot of coke and hookers.
Of course, a Golf is a little better here and a bit shinier there, but none of that really matters. Each incremental improvement in ability is costing a fortune and it just ain't worth it...
elementad said:
aka_kerrly said:
elementad said:
"all rounder all rounder". Who wants an "all rounder" at £34,000 apart from reps?
Lots of people want a all rounder. A car that can be driven long or short distances in comfort, a car that can be given to the wife to run to town in on Saturday and yet blasted around the Brecon Beacons on Sunday with mountain bikes in the back. A car that doesn't shout I have too much money nor I am a cheapskate, a car that can turn up at Silverstone and be used/abused on track or left in the car park and not look out of place. Sounds like an expensive all you can eat buffet for folk who can't make their minds up
Using your analogy you could take a wide cross section of society to the all you can eat buffet where everyone could find something they want, get well fed and leave happy!
aka_kerrly said:
elementad said:
aka_kerrly said:
elementad said:
"all rounder all rounder". Who wants an "all rounder" at £34,000 apart from reps?
Lots of people want a all rounder. A car that can be driven long or short distances in comfort, a car that can be given to the wife to run to town in on Saturday and yet blasted around the Brecon Beacons on Sunday with mountain bikes in the back. A car that doesn't shout I have too much money nor I am a cheapskate, a car that can turn up at Silverstone and be used/abused on track or left in the car park and not look out of place. Sounds like an expensive all you can eat buffet for folk who can't make their minds up
Using your analogy you could take a wide cross section of society to the all you can eat buffet where everyone could find something they want, get well fed and leave happy!
I don't know what my 1996 Golf GTI 8v cost when it was new but I was thinking onlty this morning as I blasted through the lanes with it's relatively slight weight and massive 115hp, why would I ever really need more than this car is capable of. It understeers in extremis but the size makes it very wieldy, you can place it within an inch of any apex and it has reasonable power steering. It carries 5 (then the 115hp might struggle) and cross-country behine a modern 3 series driven with aplomb, it kept pace. You really don't need more.
OK, it's a bit grotty in places and pure 90s plastic and cloth inside but it cost £750 3 years ago when it was around 13 years old and with 102k on the clock. It's from this warped perspective that I cannot fathom where another £30000 is possibly justified for a hatchback which in real terms, offers not a lot more.
OK, it's a bit grotty in places and pure 90s plastic and cloth inside but it cost £750 3 years ago when it was around 13 years old and with 102k on the clock. It's from this warped perspective that I cannot fathom where another £30000 is possibly justified for a hatchback which in real terms, offers not a lot more.
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