RE: PH Carpool: Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964)
Discussion
stv951 said:
cuneus said:
Nope
I also agree that a nice late 944 Turbo S is a better car and can be even better if slightly modified/upgraded. It would run circles around the 964 RS. Pitty these (944 turbo) are so undervalued.
The simple fact IMO is that the 944 turbo as good at it is, just is not fun. It's great but not an event to drive or race. It's eneventful and boring compared to a 911 on track. There is nothing more rewarding to drive on the limit than a 911. The only front engined Porsche that I have driven on circuit that made me smile was a 928 GTS. Good power, great sound and handled like a fat old pig. In other words it moved around a lot. Bit like the 911 does.
wtdoom said:
So on 18's it turns in better and works better on track ? You think that's the wheels or the set up (could that sharp front end be recreated on 17's) ?
Did you use Mathey ?
Yes, Manthey.Did you use Mathey ?
The current setup is for sure much better on track - road miles just eat the inside edges of the tyres, you can't have it both ways.
As different mods have been done every few years it's difficult to say exactly which bits might in isolation make the most difference.
I suspect that with good suspension and appropriate geometry you could make the car good on track on 17's - though my guess would be that 18's are slightly better. The width at the front has gone from 205/50 as standard (though many people run wider) to 225/40 - and at the rear from 255/40 to 285/30. That's quite a bit of extra rubber.
For me it's not so much the sharpness of the turn-in - though that is better now - but more the ability to control the front end through the corner to stop it washing out, though that is as much about driving technique as car setup IMHO.
graemel said:
stv951 said:
cuneus said:
Nope
I also agree that a nice late 944 Turbo S is a better car and can be even better if slightly modified/upgraded. It would run circles around the 964 RS. Pitty these (944 turbo) are so undervalued.
The simple fact IMO is that the 944 turbo as good at it is, just is not fun. It's great but not an event to drive or race. It's eneventful and boring compared to a 911 on track. There is nothing more rewarding to drive on the limit than a 911. The only front engined Porsche that I have driven on circuit that made me smile was a 928 GTS. Good power, great sound and handled like a fat old pig. In other words it moved around a lot. Bit like the 911 does.
Joe911 said:
I've thought about getting a GT3 of some kind, and I'm sure I'd be travelling faster, but I don't think I'd be having more fun. I'm just starting to get the hang of driving competently - I can't sell her now!
Great write up and one of my all time top ten, cars. Love themodesty about driving skills, which I can very much echo. We've owned a red 911 3.2 Carrera Cabrio since 2000, and it will never be sold. I too have only just got the hang of driving it, but still manage the odd (track day) spin, usually when trying to provide commentary or 'race' another car. It might be perverse, but the difficulty in driving a 911 well IS the attraction. Did anyone learn to play an instrument breathe a sigh of relief when programmable synthesisers apeared? Guessing these are not 911 fans. Analogue lovers can still tell the difference.
dvs_dave said:
Lovely motor.
One thing that confuses me about older Pork; Why are they so expensive to service? They're pretty simple cars in the grand scheme of things. Is it a case of parts being costly, and/or the cars being poorly designed, so labor intensive with respect to maintenance?
They don't have to be expensive, just use a specialist. No more to service than a big family salonn, cheaper than a hot audi or bimmer.One thing that confuses me about older Pork; Why are they so expensive to service? They're pretty simple cars in the grand scheme of things. Is it a case of parts being costly, and/or the cars being poorly designed, so labor intensive with respect to maintenance?
All up the the 993 type are relatively simple to DIY service. The multi-link rear setup gets in the way of engine drops on the 993, and elctronice got more involved from 964 onward. Still just a huge bike/Aero engine out back
dvs_dave said:
One thing that confuses me about older Pork; Why are they so expensive to service? They're pretty simple cars in the grand scheme of things. Is it a case of parts being costly, and/or the cars being poorly designed, so labor intensive with respect to maintenance?
Some of the parts are expensive - most are not all that expensive in themselves but get used up quickly when you do a lot of track driving (pads, discs, tyres).I am anal enough to have a file of every servicing and upgrade bill going back 14 years - but I try not to look at them
, or add them up 
- as I tell myself that owning the RS is a wise investment 
To those wondering, yes I still have mine. Currently SORN'd for the winter. Makes occasional appearances in GT Porsche magazine, and evo of course. Love it to bits. Old-school enough to look and feel like a 'proper' 911, young enough to stop, steer and go like something more modern. I've resisted upgrades/modernisation as I like the fact it's representative of the breed, warts and all. Can understand why you might go for the suspension tweaks though. I took it to the 'Ring the summer I bought it (2006) and had a brilliant time, but haven't done much track stuff since. I enjoy it enough on the road, and am lucky enough to scratch the track driving itch at 'work'. I use the term loosely... As for the value, well it makes a change to buy a car that appreciates like most cars depreciate. Suspect they'll keep going up - though perhaps not as rapidly as the last 5 years - as there's always a demand for limited production lightweight Porsches, especially those with the RS badge. Suspect the 996 GT3 RS is the 964's spiritual successor: rapidly overlooked and outclassed by the Gen 1 997 RS, but still a fantastic machine. Would love one to keep the 964 company, but can't see them ever dropping much below £50k. For that reason I'm oot 
Mr Meaden, Im afraid I have to blame your publication for fuelling my addiction to quick cars ! I believe you chaps ran a bunch of iconic 911's on the A686 Hartside road. I used to drive up there every chance I had in my 968CS, then 964RS and finally my Seven. On that road the RS was definitely too much like hard work. I remember tyres becoming a problem since the SO2 in those sizes were hard to get a hold of. Do you run standard ride height ?
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