RE: Driven: Toyota GT 86
Discussion
Chris71 said:
I think that's where it differs. Personally I suspect a marque like Ginetta is still more likely to appeal to the weekend enthusiasts who are already buying low-volume cars like Lotuses and Caterhams.
True, maybes I'd just be that bit more adventurous and take the Ginetta to be differentChris71 said:
I just hope selling to people weened on massively over-tyred front wheel drive cars doesn't lead to a backlash if they start putting them in hedges. I'd love to see the GT 86 do well, not least because I rather fancy one when the second hand prices come down.
It'll be funny to watch though 
I hope it does well aswell, for the same reason.. I good 2nd hand one in 3 years or sojetpilot said:
An interesting thread with varied opinions.
A couple of things that jump out at me from the posts and making no judgement on a car i have not driven, which i believe includes "ALL" of us except for the author!
Personally i cannot see how a lightweight, low power (in comparison to modern standards), low spec car will or can cost £25k+. A 350z was cheaper when it was released!
Why are there so many comments on tuning, increasing the power etc This wont happen till years down the line, just like any other Jap car, unless of course your not worried about loosing your warranty. Sure the Japs will be doing it, but it will probably costs a fair bit less in Japan to start. To compare re price, wasnt the GTR something like £31k new in Japan?
I am afraid i will concur with some, i am not sure it will live up to the reputation, owners will get bored quickly, it will depreciate fast and it will only gain favour when there are not many left like the AE86 except for the die hard enthusiasts who have always raved about it!
The tuning ethos cOmes from Toyota themselves. They have a built a car that can be tuned purposely, warranties I am sure will take this ethos into consideration. It has from what I have read a far superior chassis and feel than the 350. It uses a lot less fuel, lower tax band etc, for me this car is a compromise for those that can't afford high running costs and who want a drivers car. I should new as well, because price comparisons with older cars are pointlessA couple of things that jump out at me from the posts and making no judgement on a car i have not driven, which i believe includes "ALL" of us except for the author!
Personally i cannot see how a lightweight, low power (in comparison to modern standards), low spec car will or can cost £25k+. A 350z was cheaper when it was released!
Why are there so many comments on tuning, increasing the power etc This wont happen till years down the line, just like any other Jap car, unless of course your not worried about loosing your warranty. Sure the Japs will be doing it, but it will probably costs a fair bit less in Japan to start. To compare re price, wasnt the GTR something like £31k new in Japan?
I am afraid i will concur with some, i am not sure it will live up to the reputation, owners will get bored quickly, it will depreciate fast and it will only gain favour when there are not many left like the AE86 except for the die hard enthusiasts who have always raved about it!
Edited by jetpilot on Thursday 2nd February 18:45
It looks very capable, but alas so devoid of....character? It looks like one of them wierd asian-marked coupes you see when you are in bangkok. You have never seen it before and I guess its supposed to be sporty or something, but it just doesnt give you anything.
Like a GT-R, only without the go.
Like a GT-R, only without the go.
Thought I'd add a few things. For those saying it is too expensive, I kind of agree. However that isn't really Toyota's or Subaru's fault, it's another thing you can blame on incompetent politicians / greedy bankers (delete where applicable).
The problem is the Japanese Yen is ridiculously strong against the pound right now, great for me as I live over here, very bad for any company that wants to sell stuff overseas. To show you what I mean, the 25 grand being suggested equates to about 3 million yen today, a fairly reasonable price for a new car over here. When the concept was first announced a few years ago, 3 million yen was about 20,000 pounds. Had they introduced it before the crash when I first arrived, 3 million yen would have been around 15,000 pounds (not suggesting they would have sold it at that mind).
Having seen both the BRZ and the 86 at the Nagoya motorshow I can safely say it isn't ugly but also not that pretty, a real shame as the concept was awesome. Of the two, the BRZ looked better, more purposeful, the minor design differences were more convincing. That said, the colour chosen by Toyota (a kind of rusty crap reddish brown) doesn't show it off well, that black version from earlier in the thread is much better. As an aside about the colour, I teach English to a group of Denso engineers and salespeople and chatting with them, they claimed the colour was requested by Toyota Europe for the show car. Apparently Toyota Japan wanted to use a pearlescent white. True or not, I have no idea but whoever chose that colour should be fired!
For those of you suggesting it needs more power, the aftermarket tuners are already on it and even Toyota itself seems to be pushing it's own in house modification products (they sent a couple of approved modified versions to the recent Tokyo Auto Salon show).
The problem is the Japanese Yen is ridiculously strong against the pound right now, great for me as I live over here, very bad for any company that wants to sell stuff overseas. To show you what I mean, the 25 grand being suggested equates to about 3 million yen today, a fairly reasonable price for a new car over here. When the concept was first announced a few years ago, 3 million yen was about 20,000 pounds. Had they introduced it before the crash when I first arrived, 3 million yen would have been around 15,000 pounds (not suggesting they would have sold it at that mind).
Having seen both the BRZ and the 86 at the Nagoya motorshow I can safely say it isn't ugly but also not that pretty, a real shame as the concept was awesome. Of the two, the BRZ looked better, more purposeful, the minor design differences were more convincing. That said, the colour chosen by Toyota (a kind of rusty crap reddish brown) doesn't show it off well, that black version from earlier in the thread is much better. As an aside about the colour, I teach English to a group of Denso engineers and salespeople and chatting with them, they claimed the colour was requested by Toyota Europe for the show car. Apparently Toyota Japan wanted to use a pearlescent white. True or not, I have no idea but whoever chose that colour should be fired!
For those of you suggesting it needs more power, the aftermarket tuners are already on it and even Toyota itself seems to be pushing it's own in house modification products (they sent a couple of approved modified versions to the recent Tokyo Auto Salon show).
otolith said:
The Ginetta is an interesting option, and quite possibly where my money would go. I think it's probably too extreme for most people, though.
Not to mention that the Ginetta is AFAIK only available in the UK, in relatively small volumes whereas the GT-86/BRZ is very much a world car.Jayinjapan said:
Thought I'd add a few things. For those saying it is too expensive, I kind of agree. However that isn't really Toyota's or Subaru's fault, it's another thing you can blame on incompetent politicians / greedy bankers (delete where applicable).
The problem is the Japanese Yen is ridiculously strong against the pound right now, great for me as I live over here, very bad for any company that wants to sell stuff overseas. To show you what I mean, the 25 grand being suggested equates to about 3 million yen today, a fairly reasonable price for a new car over here. When the concept was first announced a few years ago, 3 million yen was about 20,000 pounds. Had they introduced it before the crash when I first arrived, 3 million yen would have been around 15,000 pounds (not suggesting they would have sold it at that mind).
This is a fact I think everyone needs to get their head round, Toyota haven't bumped up the cost, it is still a cheap car like they originally planned but external factors have caused this price swell to £25k+, our money just isn't worth what it used to be!The problem is the Japanese Yen is ridiculously strong against the pound right now, great for me as I live over here, very bad for any company that wants to sell stuff overseas. To show you what I mean, the 25 grand being suggested equates to about 3 million yen today, a fairly reasonable price for a new car over here. When the concept was first announced a few years ago, 3 million yen was about 20,000 pounds. Had they introduced it before the crash when I first arrived, 3 million yen would have been around 15,000 pounds (not suggesting they would have sold it at that mind).
DanDC5 said:
The 350z was also released 9 years ago when the Civic Type R was £16k. Prices of all cars have gone up so the price comparison is pointless.
The Mx5 was released 22 years ago and the base model price then was around £14, base model now around £17, very similar especially given that is over 22 years, so no, price comparison is not pointless at all! They can do it, they just want you to think they cant!robmlufc said:
25k OTR would suggest a list price in the low 24s, for comparison with other cars.jetpilot said:
The Mx5 was released 22 years ago and the base model price then was around £14, base model now around £17, very similar especially given that is over 22 years, so no, price comparison is not pointless at all! They can do it, they just want you to think they cant!
As stated a couple of posts above, the currency has changed a lot since then. And a base model MX5 is hardly comparable to the base model GT-86. The comparable MX5 is the top of the range car which isn't £17k it's more like £22-23k. Making them more comparable. Also, what price was the MX5 10 years ago compared to the 350z? Now look at the price for a new one compared to a 370z. Percentage wise it's not all that different....D200 said:
Sorry for comparing the GT 86 with yet another out of production car but I have to make a comparison to a very recent car – the just out of production Mazda RX8.
It was of a similar mould [i.e. rwd, 200ish bho, lsd, Japanese], except it had 4 useful seats and not a 2 seater with 2 unusable seats, similar performance [well faster actually] and a less then 25k list for top of range model, and when they were on sale you could buy them from brokers brand new under £20k and I believe Mazda dealers gave similar massive discounts too
Just a real shame it was fatally flawed and they didn’t fit it with a normal – i.e. non rotary – engine. Mazda need to bring out another one with a conventional engine
But now, as the other PH article states, they are a real bargain, as in less then 3k for mint low mileage ones! These cars truly are PHENOMIMULY cheap, just a crying shame they do 15mpg and drink oil at alarming rate and if you don’t feed it enough it will die
Please note - I entered a – I know these greatly offend some people but they are available to add when posting a ph comment. I add them so imply I am not taking the post seriously and getting worked up or anything – as it can be hard to judge context in emails, forums posts. Just to clear that up
Didnt everyone complain though that it wasnt fast enough with the 230 odd BHP engine? Or i making that up?It was of a similar mould [i.e. rwd, 200ish bho, lsd, Japanese], except it had 4 useful seats and not a 2 seater with 2 unusable seats, similar performance [well faster actually] and a less then 25k list for top of range model, and when they were on sale you could buy them from brokers brand new under £20k and I believe Mazda dealers gave similar massive discounts too
Just a real shame it was fatally flawed and they didn’t fit it with a normal – i.e. non rotary – engine. Mazda need to bring out another one with a conventional engine
But now, as the other PH article states, they are a real bargain, as in less then 3k for mint low mileage ones! These cars truly are PHENOMIMULY cheap, just a crying shame they do 15mpg and drink oil at alarming rate and if you don’t feed it enough it will die
Please note - I entered a
– I know these greatly offend some people but they are available to add when posting a ph comment. I add them so imply I am not taking the post seriously and getting worked up or anything – as it can be hard to judge context in emails, forums posts. Just to clear that up On a different point, why would i buy one of these over the current MX5?
Would the premium be worth it, considering the MX5 is a convertible? Genuine question BTW? DanDC5 said:
As stated a couple of posts above, the currency has changed a lot since then. And a base model MX5 is hardly comparable to the base model GT-86. The comparable MX5 is the top of the range car which isn't £17k it's more like £22-23k. Making them more comparable. Also, what price was the MX5 10 years ago compared to the 350z? Now look at the price for a new one compared to a 370z. Percentage wise it's not all that different....
Why are you talking about comparison between the twos performance? What i did say to be clear in discussion to your point that car prices have increased (not talking performance), is, Mazda have managed to keep their base model Mx5 very similar over a 22 year period, so in essence, prices havent or dont necessarily have to change and as you rightly say, even though the £ has dropped massively against the yen its even more impressive of Mazda to be close with their base model prices under those circumstances, yes?
Im sure the Gt86 is and will be a very good car and appeal to those who want a back to basics lightweight, rear wheel drive car! However, is there anything special about a 200 na hp engine, no, Honda have been doing it for years and with dc5 in your id i am sure you well know that, is there anything special about a well set up chassis, no, Mazda have been doing it for years with the Mx5 (just as examples). Should that accumulate to what is in essence a quite a costly car for what your getting imho, no!
Its not an argument, just a point of view
Personally i would be buying an Rx8 for £4k ish with a rebuild and two years unlimited mileage warranty and put the other £20k away for rebuilds However, i know there is no comparison between what you can buy 2nd hand for new money I like it. I also like the A5. But frankly this seems to appeal to a different audience to the A5. The A5 is a proper 4 seater and is way more elegant/classy. I can't really imagine thrashing an A5 around a track on the limit or chucking it about.
This seems to appeal to the sort of person who has much more of a press-on driving style. More of a fun sports car than a grand tourer sort of thing. It's reasonably priced too!
This seems to appeal to the sort of person who has much more of a press-on driving style. More of a fun sports car than a grand tourer sort of thing. It's reasonably priced too!
jetpilot said:
Why are you talking about comparison between the twos performance?
What i did say to be clear in discussion to your point that car prices have increased (not talking performance), is, Mazda have managed to keep their base model Mx5 very similar over a 22 year period, so in essence, prices havent or dont necessarily have to change and as you rightly say, even though the £ has dropped massively against the yen its even more impressive of Mazda to be close with their base model prices under those circumstances, yes?
Im sure the Gt86 is and will be a very good car and appeal to those who want a back to basics lightweight, rear wheel drive car! However, is there anything special about a 200 na hp engine, no, Honda have been doing it for years and with dc5 in your id i am sure you well know that, is there anything special about a well set up chassis, no, Mazda have been doing it for years with the Mx5 (just as examples). Should that accumulate to what is in essence a quite a costly car for what your getting imho, no!
Its not an argument, just a point of view Personally i would be buying an Rx8 for £4k ish with a rebuild and two years unlimited mileage warranty and put the other £20k away for rebuilds However, i know there is no comparison between what you can buy 2nd hand for new money
My fail, I misread how you put it What i did say to be clear in discussion to your point that car prices have increased (not talking performance), is, Mazda have managed to keep their base model Mx5 very similar over a 22 year period, so in essence, prices havent or dont necessarily have to change and as you rightly say, even though the £ has dropped massively against the yen its even more impressive of Mazda to be close with their base model prices under those circumstances, yes?
Im sure the Gt86 is and will be a very good car and appeal to those who want a back to basics lightweight, rear wheel drive car! However, is there anything special about a 200 na hp engine, no, Honda have been doing it for years and with dc5 in your id i am sure you well know that, is there anything special about a well set up chassis, no, Mazda have been doing it for years with the Mx5 (just as examples). Should that accumulate to what is in essence a quite a costly car for what your getting imho, no!
Its not an argument, just a point of view
Personally i would be buying an Rx8 for £4k ish with a rebuild and two years unlimited mileage warranty and put the other £20k away for rebuilds However, i know there is no comparison between what you can buy 2nd hand for new money The RX8 is getting more and more appealing at the moment. Even with the running costs they're becoming a bargain performance car. It's a close tie up between one of those and an S2000 for my next car. At the moment, unless I can afford the Toyota/Subaru when it is time to change.
Bit more blurb here
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/...
Interesting that the Subaru might cost £5k more
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/...
Interesting that the Subaru might cost £5k more
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