RE: PH Fleet Intro: Mazda RX-8
Discussion
I really considered on but head ruled over heart and I went BMW as a daily driver. Heard horror stories about them in all sorts of conditions out in Tinternet land but never actually met an owner who had a problem. As mentioned treat them right and they are fine, MPG is a killer though. if you want a 192 version they can be had for absolute buttons.
J4CKO said:
This thread, compared to others has a that feeling of someone discussing a sick pet or relative and saying they will be fine, nothing to worry about, you know, that hopeless optimism and supportiveness despite the facts at hand.
Good luck with it though, seriously.
Good luck with it though, seriously.
good observation J4cko.All the stories I hear, and yes they are stories, don't make for good listening! I've heard enough for it not to be myth and legend but in summary:
Poor fuel consumption (ok, you may not care so much for a track slag but certainly for putting up with it daily it's not good)
Prone to engine flooding (a couple of starts, stops, short maneouvres - around the drive, out of the garage say, and it's flooded - you can't start it and have to leave it for some time)
High oil consumption - an earlier post mentioned 500ml in every 1,000 miles - that is significant IMHO!! I've only ever had one car that beat that, it was GTi-16 Cororlla and one of it's piston rings was lunching the bore!)
I think the market value of these cars speaks for themselves, they depreciated badly, Mazda don't make them anymore and I regularly see them sitting in private dealer forecourts for too long, for little money.
Richiefly said:
High oil consumption - an earlier post mentioned 500ml in every 1,000 miles - that is significant IMHO!! I've only ever had one car that beat that, it was GTi-16 Cororlla and one of it's piston rings was lunching the bore!)
What is it about an engine which is designed to use oil that frightens you? It's really simple and easy to check and top up the oil level, it shows you how to do it in the manual, and if you still struggle you could perhaps ask your dad to show you how.Richiefly said:
High oil consumption - an earlier post mentioned 500ml in every 1,000 miles - that is significant IMHO!!
Best not consider a s2000, 350Z or M3 thenhttp://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3002123
http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&am...
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4773...
Richiefly said:
I think the market value of these cars speaks for themselves, they depreciated badly, Mazda don't make them anymore and I regularly see them sitting in private dealer forecourts for too long, for little money.
Expensive on fuel hits the traditional market of people looking for a practical coupe, but what other car released in 2003 is still in production? I'm sure someone will come up with an example, but it's not really shocking that Mazda have (just) stopped production, is it?They don't depreciate badly if you buy one now, but they did take a massive hit a couple of years back.
M
Fastdruid said:
Best not consider a s2000, 350Z or M3 then
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3002123
http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&am...
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4773...
Or an RS4.http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3002123
http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&am...
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4773...
The RX8 231 is a fantastic car. I only recently sold my 2005 car. I used it every day and did several track days (although never got to the ring).
My car did over 80k miles and I used the available revs and power at every opportunity.
I was aware that the car is designed to burn oil but I was concerned that adding two-stroke might be bad for the cat (one of the RX8 failings is the cat breaking up and giving reduced power which is a similar symptom of low compression so can cause unncessary heart attacks!). Thus I didn't start to add two-stroke until I changed the whole exhaust system (at about 40k miles). I can't say I noticed any improvement in power but perhaps it helped prolong engine life.
The car handles brilliantly with progressive oversteer and fairly harmless tank slappers if you get it all wrong. I replaced the RX8 with an EvoX FQ330 and despite extra power and 4wheel drive my lap times are only fractionally better than acheived with the Rex.
Interestingly, the RX8 returned about 21mpg whether I was doing a track day or a motorway run. The Evo does 23-25mpg on the motorway and 9mpg on the track!
My car did over 80k miles and I used the available revs and power at every opportunity.
I was aware that the car is designed to burn oil but I was concerned that adding two-stroke might be bad for the cat (one of the RX8 failings is the cat breaking up and giving reduced power which is a similar symptom of low compression so can cause unncessary heart attacks!). Thus I didn't start to add two-stroke until I changed the whole exhaust system (at about 40k miles). I can't say I noticed any improvement in power but perhaps it helped prolong engine life.
The car handles brilliantly with progressive oversteer and fairly harmless tank slappers if you get it all wrong. I replaced the RX8 with an EvoX FQ330 and despite extra power and 4wheel drive my lap times are only fractionally better than acheived with the Rex.
Interestingly, the RX8 returned about 21mpg whether I was doing a track day or a motorway run. The Evo does 23-25mpg on the motorway and 9mpg on the track!
marcosgt said:
They don't depreciate badly if you buy one now, but they did take a massive hit a couple of years back.
The took a *massive* hit when petrol suddenly ramped up in price alongside the increase in VED. They seem to recover a bit when petrol prices drop but then of course that never lasts and they dip again.Please, please understand one thing...
The ECU of the RX-8 controls a small device called the OMP. This is the Oil Metering Pump. This will then draw oil from your sump and spray it in to the rotary engine. This is just how many of the parts are lubricated. Like a two-stoke it's necessary to lubricate the same parts that also see petrol on the intake cycle.
This oil consumption is not the result of any poor design or deterioration and cannot be compared to an '80s Toyota with a broken ring. Ideally speaking a 4-stroke piston engine would not consume oil at all. But they do.
A wankel engine sprays oil on to the burny hot parts and the burnt oil leaves via the exhaust. It is a total loss system.
This consumption varies according to how hard you drive the motor. Drive it hard, expect to check the oil a lot. Drive it normally, and it's no worse than having slightly smokey Mondeo but not even close to having a nikasil BMW or an MX5 with dodgy valve seals...
The ECU of the RX-8 controls a small device called the OMP. This is the Oil Metering Pump. This will then draw oil from your sump and spray it in to the rotary engine. This is just how many of the parts are lubricated. Like a two-stoke it's necessary to lubricate the same parts that also see petrol on the intake cycle.
This oil consumption is not the result of any poor design or deterioration and cannot be compared to an '80s Toyota with a broken ring. Ideally speaking a 4-stroke piston engine would not consume oil at all. But they do.
A wankel engine sprays oil on to the burny hot parts and the burnt oil leaves via the exhaust. It is a total loss system.
This consumption varies according to how hard you drive the motor. Drive it hard, expect to check the oil a lot. Drive it normally, and it's no worse than having slightly smokey Mondeo but not even close to having a nikasil BMW or an MX5 with dodgy valve seals...
Alex said:
I love the commentary through Wipperman. Could you record another lap with commentary throughout? Chat about the lines, the characteristics of the car, anything really!
OK, if you want commentary on your lap check this out:First ever session driving the car, on the Nurburgring GP track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxRbZ1x4Zco
First ever lap of the Nordschleife in the car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gksyQ6R8JEk
And a serious guide on how to drive the track in the wet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5Txzcl2_A
As for G-Meter glitch, previous versions of the software wouldn't allow you to flip it. I've not checked the latest.
Edited by Dale Lomas on Wednesday 1st February 16:14
Time to wade in here in here I feel!
I've driven every model of RX7, and owned at least one of every generation, and totted up over 150,000miles in them. I've also done a few thousand miles in Rx-8's of various generations.
In all that time, only one engine ever let me down - and that had done 159,000 miles when it finally lost compression on the rear rotor. (rebuilding it cost me about £1400 in parts, and the car+engine live on 10 years later as a sprint car)
40 years ago all this crap about the rotaries would have been more or less correct, but now it is not the case. If the rotary was as bad as the naysayers make out then I seriously doubt they would be fitted to aircraft as a viable and cost effective power plant!
Yes, I'm biased, (See mazda rotary club! lol!) but the rotaries are no better or worse than any other high performance engine.. they are merely different.
For balance - I also like V8's, and big vintage diesels
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrettMRC
Personally, my only real gripes with the Rx8 center around the PITA ECU interface with the alarm etc, and the crappy rear visibility when you go to look over your shoulder. (TBH most Rx's suffer from rear visibility issues though)
Warm her up, then drive it like its stolen!
I've driven every model of RX7, and owned at least one of every generation, and totted up over 150,000miles in them. I've also done a few thousand miles in Rx-8's of various generations.
In all that time, only one engine ever let me down - and that had done 159,000 miles when it finally lost compression on the rear rotor. (rebuilding it cost me about £1400 in parts, and the car+engine live on 10 years later as a sprint car)
40 years ago all this crap about the rotaries would have been more or less correct, but now it is not the case. If the rotary was as bad as the naysayers make out then I seriously doubt they would be fitted to aircraft as a viable and cost effective power plant!
Yes, I'm biased, (See mazda rotary club! lol!) but the rotaries are no better or worse than any other high performance engine.. they are merely different.
For balance - I also like V8's, and big vintage diesels
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrettMRC
Personally, my only real gripes with the Rx8 center around the PITA ECU interface with the alarm etc, and the crappy rear visibility when you go to look over your shoulder. (TBH most Rx's suffer from rear visibility issues though)
Warm her up, then drive it like its stolen!
Edited by BrettMRC on Wednesday 1st February 16:25
Dale Lomas said:
OK, if you want commentary on your lap check this out:
First ever session driving the car, on the Nurburgring GP track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxRbZ1x4Zco
First ever lap of the Nordschleife in the car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gksyQ6R8JEk
And a serious guide on how to drive the track in the wet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5Txzcl2_A
As for G-Meter glitch, previous versions of the software wouldn't allow you to flip it. I've not checked the latest.
Excellent. Cheers, Dale. MX5 driver lucky in the first clip! Nice drifting at the end too.First ever session driving the car, on the Nurburgring GP track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxRbZ1x4Zco
First ever lap of the Nordschleife in the car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gksyQ6R8JEk
And a serious guide on how to drive the track in the wet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5Txzcl2_A
As for G-Meter glitch, previous versions of the software wouldn't allow you to flip it. I've not checked the latest.
djt100 said:
I think the reason for this is simple, I'd love an RX8 but I'll never buy one because of the horror stories, are they justified? I'd say yes, how many other 5-6 year old cars do you see for sale on with less than 50k and bulked engines. I can't think of a single one.
My previous STi 330S. Lunched it's engine after 2 years and 20,000 miles, and there are plenty of others out there that have done the same. The problem with eth RX8 is that, unlike so many engines nowadays, it requires looking after and understanding. Something that used to be de rigeur, but is now almost unheard of. Care for one, and it'll last into 6 figure miles, abuse it and expect it to run like a Focus and it'll bite you. I guess enthusiasts are prepared to do that, but teh majority of early cars, bought for the image, will now be having major issues as a result of neglect.otolith said:
What is it about an engine which is designed to use oil that frightens you? It's really simple and easy to check and top up the oil level, it shows you how to do it in the manual, and if you still struggle you could perhaps ask your dad to show you how.
1 litre every 2000 miles was standrad on both my RX8s. My Ep3 Civic, however, managed 7 litres in 4500 miles. And Honda refused to investigate it because they claimed it was within tolerances, being 1 litre every km. Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 1st February 18:42
djt100 said:
I think the reason for this is simple, I'd love an RX8 but I'll never buy one because of the horror stories, are they justified? I'd say yes, how many other 5-6 year old cars do you see for sale on with less than 50k and bulked engines. I can't think of a single one.
Porsche 911? IMO far worse, although 'only' 5-10% of 996's and 968 boxsters affectedhttp://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/08/porsches-...
Dale Lomas said:
Please, please understand one thing...
The ECU of the RX-8 controls a small device called the OMP. This is the Oil Metering Pump. This will then draw oil from your sump and spray it in to the rotary engine. This is just how many of the parts are lubricated. Like a two-stoke it's necessary to lubricate the same parts that also see petrol on the intake cycle.
This oil consumption is not the result of any poor design or deterioration and cannot be compared to an '80s Toyota with a broken ring. Ideally speaking a 4-stroke piston engine would not consume oil at all. But they do.
A wankel engine sprays oil on to the burny hot parts and the burnt oil leaves via the exhaust. It is a total loss system.
This consumption varies according to how hard you drive the motor. Drive it hard, expect to check the oil a lot. Drive it normally, and it's no worse than having slightly smokey Mondeo but not even close to having a nikasil BMW or an MX5 with dodgy valve seals...
Dale, I am so glad there where people like you posting two years ago, otherwise I would never have bought my PZ if I'd relied on all the "experts" who had not even owned one!The ECU of the RX-8 controls a small device called the OMP. This is the Oil Metering Pump. This will then draw oil from your sump and spray it in to the rotary engine. This is just how many of the parts are lubricated. Like a two-stoke it's necessary to lubricate the same parts that also see petrol on the intake cycle.
This oil consumption is not the result of any poor design or deterioration and cannot be compared to an '80s Toyota with a broken ring. Ideally speaking a 4-stroke piston engine would not consume oil at all. But they do.
A wankel engine sprays oil on to the burny hot parts and the burnt oil leaves via the exhaust. It is a total loss system.
This consumption varies according to how hard you drive the motor. Drive it hard, expect to check the oil a lot. Drive it normally, and it's no worse than having slightly smokey Mondeo but not even close to having a nikasil BMW or an MX5 with dodgy valve seals...
It's been a fantastic two years on and off track, and I'm struggling to decide what to replace it with, what else offers such good looks, pace, fun on track, RWD and can be bought and run on a friendly budget, and yet is onyl a few years old and comes with all the toys, leather, bose stereo, climate as standard.
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