It's twins.................
Discussion
Can't be bothered to read this whole thread but did anyone suggest a 1.8 petrol Honda Civic yet?
Better MPG than the Clio. It does 30mpg round the doors thanks to the ivtec. Tons of room thanks to the magic seats and extra deep boot. Not half bad performance on the 0-60 and 7-8K will get you a reasonabily young one. Bullet proof Honda reliability.
Oh whoever said 30mpg and focus ST in the same sentence is in denial. Try low 20s and I've had 3 of them! Also avoid the ST3, sculpted rear seats so only take 2 people.
Better MPG than the Clio. It does 30mpg round the doors thanks to the ivtec. Tons of room thanks to the magic seats and extra deep boot. Not half bad performance on the 0-60 and 7-8K will get you a reasonabily young one. Bullet proof Honda reliability.
Oh whoever said 30mpg and focus ST in the same sentence is in denial. Try low 20s and I've had 3 of them! Also avoid the ST3, sculpted rear seats so only take 2 people.
LuS1fer said:
I would buy a Mazda 5 for the following reasons:
(1) Based on a Focus C-Max and handles like a car.
(2) Compact dimensions and no stupid handbrakes etc.
(3)Both rear doors slide - this feature alone makes it a million times better than any other option when you're wrestling with baby seats and bags and whatever else gets loaded in. Not having to fight a 45 degree angle open door will be something you will desire. In summer, you can have both doors open and let the breeze through. Ours had a roof-mounted video which was a godsend.
(3) The two rear seats fold flat into the floor so plenty of space for the dog and a pushchair
With the advent of 3 kids, we had to move to a Mondeo as the boot space was then smaller but I still miss those rear sliding doors every time I'm struggling in a car park with limited space and your kids will never dent another car.
We had a good look around one of these a couple of weeks ago and dismissed it for a number of reasons...(1) Based on a Focus C-Max and handles like a car.
(2) Compact dimensions and no stupid handbrakes etc.
(3)Both rear doors slide - this feature alone makes it a million times better than any other option when you're wrestling with baby seats and bags and whatever else gets loaded in. Not having to fight a 45 degree angle open door will be something you will desire. In summer, you can have both doors open and let the breeze through. Ours had a roof-mounted video which was a godsend.
(3) The two rear seats fold flat into the floor so plenty of space for the dog and a pushchair
With the advent of 3 kids, we had to move to a Mondeo as the boot space was then smaller but I still miss those rear sliding doors every time I'm struggling in a car park with limited space and your kids will never dent another car.
The sliding doors are a nice idea, but they weigh a tonne and in the event of an accident are potentially much harder to open.
They have an exposed hinge at the base which is not designed to be used as a step... you can guarantee kids will do this.
There actually isn't too much interior space, the boot really isn't that big.
Bought a Zafira in the end... it's the market leader of mini MPVs for a reason!
SWoll said:
Cons?
It's a medium sized saloon car that is unlikely to meet your space requirements and will be a nightmare getting anything bulky/oddly shaped in and out of.
I can only recommend again that you buy a decent sized estate car or you will regret if within 6 months. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.
Agreed, I have twins who are now 3. We have stopped using a buggy and the amount of paraphernalia we take on holiday or to friends / relatives has reduced dramatically. As a result I have just moved from an Octavia estate to a 330i saloon.It's a medium sized saloon car that is unlikely to meet your space requirements and will be a nightmare getting anything bulky/oddly shaped in and out of.
I can only recommend again that you buy a decent sized estate car or you will regret if within 6 months. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.
The 330 is only just big enough for us to go on holiday now, if you had travel cots and buggys to take as well it just wouldn't be happening.
What about something like this? One of the best looking estates going.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3643727.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3643727.htm
With this thread in mind, I took some time out at Geneva to look at 'ordinary' estate cars to see which I would buy in your situation, and I was rather surprised at the near total lack of legroom in the back if I was sitting up front.
The ones which fitted the bill were:
-Lancia Delta (Chrysler over here though I'd rebadge it if it was mine - they might look more hatchback than estate but I was seriously impressed by the size of the interior, size of the boot and general air of quality on show. Very impressed by it).
-Citron C5 Tourer (I was very disappointed by the DS5, which is so heavily stuffed with big plump leather seats there's barely room left for people. The C5 Tourer was, conversely, more luxurious, although I wouldn't buy it myself on account of that silly button instead of the handbrake - on such grounds I'd also discount Peugeots, Volkswagens, Audis and BMWs)
-Peugeot 508 estate
-Mazda 6 estate
-Any Volvo estate
-Renault Megane Sports Tourer (Renault's range seems to be one of those that's all shifted upwards in size, so while the Twingo's taken the place of the old Clio, the Megane's the size of the old Laguna. Being a Renault it should be available with some sporty engines too)
-Volkswagen Passat estate (although I'd probably lose the will to live)
-Audi A6 Avant (in the right spec it might be fun if you like that sort of thing)
-Chevrolet Cruze (I'm not sure if there's a BTCC-inspired handling/engine pack that can be specced - might be a good cheap choice if there was)
-BMW 3-series touring (certainly nothing smaller - I was seriously disappointed by the lack of space in the 1-series, which brings us to
-BMW 5-series touring (nearly everything about this car seems spot-on. Not sure I'd buy one as it seems too electronically complicated, but for what you're after, it may be perfect.
-Cost-no-object? You'd be surprised at how much room there is in a Porsche Panamera or a Maserati Quattroporte, and at least with the Panamera, once you're inside you don't have to look at the outside. Sadly there's so little point to the rear seats in the Aston Martin Rapide you wonder why they bothered (or, for that matter, why the DB9 is considered a 2+2)
However, as far as total lack of usable rear space once adults are sitting in the front are concerned, many marques should be hanging their heads in shame: Alfa Romeo (sadly - although things may change with the Giulietta Sportwagon and the new Giulia - hard to judge with just a Giulietta hatch and a Mito), the Audi A3 Sportback and A4 Avant, Cadillac, Ford (although there was no new Mondeo to try out which was a shame - but the new Focus was seriously disappointing), Honda (nearly sprained my ankle trying to get out of the back of the Accord estate), Hyundai, Jaguar, Kia, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Toyota and Vauxhall.
I have a real issue with space in cars now I've tried all those models for size. I can get comfortable in the driver's seat of just about every one of them, but as far as the space in the rest of the car is concerned, they can't be called true 4/5-seaters. I don't consider myself abnormally tall or long-legged (I'm 6'1"), and given that the world's population is generally getting taller you'd have thought they'd be designing cars around us, but they're not, and the reason seems to be massive, overly-engineered seats and airbags stuffed into every available surface that I'm not convinced would do anything in a crash and just succeed in creating a blind spot capable of hiding a biker.
The ones which fitted the bill were:
-Lancia Delta (Chrysler over here though I'd rebadge it if it was mine - they might look more hatchback than estate but I was seriously impressed by the size of the interior, size of the boot and general air of quality on show. Very impressed by it).
-Citron C5 Tourer (I was very disappointed by the DS5, which is so heavily stuffed with big plump leather seats there's barely room left for people. The C5 Tourer was, conversely, more luxurious, although I wouldn't buy it myself on account of that silly button instead of the handbrake - on such grounds I'd also discount Peugeots, Volkswagens, Audis and BMWs)
-Peugeot 508 estate
-Mazda 6 estate
-Any Volvo estate
-Renault Megane Sports Tourer (Renault's range seems to be one of those that's all shifted upwards in size, so while the Twingo's taken the place of the old Clio, the Megane's the size of the old Laguna. Being a Renault it should be available with some sporty engines too)
-Volkswagen Passat estate (although I'd probably lose the will to live)
-Audi A6 Avant (in the right spec it might be fun if you like that sort of thing)
-Chevrolet Cruze (I'm not sure if there's a BTCC-inspired handling/engine pack that can be specced - might be a good cheap choice if there was)
-BMW 3-series touring (certainly nothing smaller - I was seriously disappointed by the lack of space in the 1-series, which brings us to
-BMW 5-series touring (nearly everything about this car seems spot-on. Not sure I'd buy one as it seems too electronically complicated, but for what you're after, it may be perfect.
-Cost-no-object? You'd be surprised at how much room there is in a Porsche Panamera or a Maserati Quattroporte, and at least with the Panamera, once you're inside you don't have to look at the outside. Sadly there's so little point to the rear seats in the Aston Martin Rapide you wonder why they bothered (or, for that matter, why the DB9 is considered a 2+2)
However, as far as total lack of usable rear space once adults are sitting in the front are concerned, many marques should be hanging their heads in shame: Alfa Romeo (sadly - although things may change with the Giulietta Sportwagon and the new Giulia - hard to judge with just a Giulietta hatch and a Mito), the Audi A3 Sportback and A4 Avant, Cadillac, Ford (although there was no new Mondeo to try out which was a shame - but the new Focus was seriously disappointing), Honda (nearly sprained my ankle trying to get out of the back of the Accord estate), Hyundai, Jaguar, Kia, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Toyota and Vauxhall.
I have a real issue with space in cars now I've tried all those models for size. I can get comfortable in the driver's seat of just about every one of them, but as far as the space in the rest of the car is concerned, they can't be called true 4/5-seaters. I don't consider myself abnormally tall or long-legged (I'm 6'1"), and given that the world's population is generally getting taller you'd have thought they'd be designing cars around us, but they're not, and the reason seems to be massive, overly-engineered seats and airbags stuffed into every available surface that I'm not convinced would do anything in a crash and just succeed in creating a blind spot capable of hiding a biker.
We have number 2 due in August, and having gone 'round the houses in very much the same way that this thread has, only one car remains on the shortlist.
E-Class Merc Estate with, all importantly the option fitted of two rear facing seats in the boot.
Why? Because inevitably, Mrs L will want to go somewhere with another mum who also has two kids.
Add to this the near inevitability of fitting a roof box to take all the additional crap required with a labrador, two kids and friends/relatives - I had to ask myself, do I really want to carry a step ladder around to be able to access it? Hence any type of SUV was off the list.
Local dealer is arriving any minute with a demo 220CDI for me to have for 24hrs. Rather good lease deals going around, so here's hoping it isn't too much of a barge to drive.....
E-Class Merc Estate with, all importantly the option fitted of two rear facing seats in the boot.
Why? Because inevitably, Mrs L will want to go somewhere with another mum who also has two kids.
Add to this the near inevitability of fitting a roof box to take all the additional crap required with a labrador, two kids and friends/relatives - I had to ask myself, do I really want to carry a step ladder around to be able to access it? Hence any type of SUV was off the list.
Local dealer is arriving any minute with a demo 220CDI for me to have for 24hrs. Rather good lease deals going around, so here's hoping it isn't too much of a barge to drive.....
Leithen said:
We have number 2 due in August, and having gone 'round the houses in very much the same way that this thread has, only one car remains on the shortlist.
E-Class Merc Estate with, all importantly the option fitted of two rear facing seats in the boot.
Why? Because inevitably, Mrs L will want to go somewhere with another mum who also has two kids.
Add to this the near inevitability of fitting a roof box to take all the additional crap required with a labrador, two kids and friends/relatives - I had to ask myself, do I really want to carry a step ladder around to be able to access it? Hence any type of SUV was off the list.
Local dealer is arriving any minute with a demo 220CDI for me to have for 24hrs. Rather good lease deals going around, so here's hoping it isn't too much of a barge to drive.....
Exactly the same here, I couldn't face the thought of an MPV. Although we nearly bought a Seat Altea XL instead, we've enjoyed our E320CDI estate for the last 4.5 years and my wife has said she would be devastated if/when we replace it. We bought it 6 months before no.2 son was born, and we have a large lab/mastiff cross who fits nicely in one side of the boot, and a divider stops the rest of our carp from squashing him when we toddle off to Devon to see my parents. The rear-facing bench seats do get occasional use as well, although you need to look out for travel sickness when kids aren't used to travelling backwards...E-Class Merc Estate with, all importantly the option fitted of two rear facing seats in the boot.
Why? Because inevitably, Mrs L will want to go somewhere with another mum who also has two kids.
Add to this the near inevitability of fitting a roof box to take all the additional crap required with a labrador, two kids and friends/relatives - I had to ask myself, do I really want to carry a step ladder around to be able to access it? Hence any type of SUV was off the list.
Local dealer is arriving any minute with a demo 220CDI for me to have for 24hrs. Rather good lease deals going around, so here's hoping it isn't too much of a barge to drive.....
Oh, and you can get a whole Ikea kitchen in the boot - including the dishwasher!
Agree with comments on the 3-series saloon - combination of merely-average boot with small aperture and merely-average rear seats mean it's not ideal for a baby.
(We're making similar plans - due mid-June, just the one thankfully)
3er Touring is on my radar, but the Legacy estate is (pending a test-drive) above it on the list. Octavia vRS is off to one side, mainly because Becs likes her Golf GTi but I find it a little 'aloof'...and my old boss' 318d Touring was actually a half-decent steer for a diesel jnr-exec.
All depends on budget and priorities, of course.
- If it's going to be carrying yon sprogs much of the time, then for the next year or two get something boring, cheap, practical and reliable...oh, and that rides well - I'm told clearing baby sick out of the back of a car isn't a pleasant experience!
- If it's going to be occasional sprog-ferry, then you can compromise somewhere and get something with a bit of interest to it.
(BTW, how strong/tall is the missus? Becs is 5'3" and has had back problems in the past, so we're looking at e.g. CR-V for her so she's got the rear seats/doors at the right height for loading/unloading the kid)
(We're making similar plans - due mid-June, just the one thankfully)
3er Touring is on my radar, but the Legacy estate is (pending a test-drive) above it on the list. Octavia vRS is off to one side, mainly because Becs likes her Golf GTi but I find it a little 'aloof'...and my old boss' 318d Touring was actually a half-decent steer for a diesel jnr-exec.
All depends on budget and priorities, of course.
- If it's going to be carrying yon sprogs much of the time, then for the next year or two get something boring, cheap, practical and reliable...oh, and that rides well - I'm told clearing baby sick out of the back of a car isn't a pleasant experience!
- If it's going to be occasional sprog-ferry, then you can compromise somewhere and get something with a bit of interest to it.
(BTW, how strong/tall is the missus? Becs is 5'3" and has had back problems in the past, so we're looking at e.g. CR-V for her so she's got the rear seats/doors at the right height for loading/unloading the kid)
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