It's twins.................

[slipstream 1985]

havnt read all the posts so sorry if this has been suggested. but seeing as your wife isnt giving up anything in her car preferences and you obviously will be how about your wife drives a similar sized hot hatch to the fiesta say a clio 182 or 172 and your more valuable 197 gets traded for the aformentioned practical bigger car. that way when you want a blast in a fun car you still have access to one? your wife will still get good mpg driving a hot hatch economically as she would from her 1.4

edited to ad iv now read your post about your wife struggling with the clio. how about a fiesta st for her (and your fun) that way she is familiar with te car and you still get access to a hot hatch? The funds for the big car would be diminished a bit but as others have pointed out it may get ruined by two little sprogs so an older car worth less would make more sense. Also seeing as you mentioned changing it in 18 months or so something older won't have lost much more in value.

Edited by slipstream 1985 on Thursday 9th February 12:53

[B3Svert]

Manual A6 diesel estate, make sure the dual mass flywheel has been changed if it's high mileage, other than that it should offer years of cheap (albeit boring) motoring. At the budge you are looking at you should be able to find a nice "final edition" 2005 model with leccy seats, nav, A/C etc.

[LuS1fer]

SWoll said:

Blimey, taken it a bit personally haven't we?

We've given our arguments, lets hear your's then.

It's above. It's not personal at all, it's pointing out a contradiction.

However, a car company spends millions of pounds designing and addressing issues and comes up with an MPV, such a good concept that everybody invests some more millions and produce their own.

Forum users not that interested in children disagree and suggest an overweight and ancient barge.

[bls1]

Your wife has a year off work and you don't. So unless she's going to spend the entire year cocooned in the house, she's going to be driving this new car whether she likes it or not. She won't be able to leave the house without double buggy, at least 1 changing bag, and she'll be returning with food shopping etc.

Unless you are happy to take on her Fiesta, that will be the car you'll be selling.

I speak from experience, I inherited a Mondeo estate a couple of months before our first was born, which I was tasked with selling. My wife refused to acknowledge it existed, let alone consider driving it. 8 months later, she loves its versatility, slinging the buggy in the boot with ease, taking whatever she wants wherever she wants. And I'm now driving her old car. And I've only got one baby !

[Bullett]

Don't exclude the Octavia, the boot is huge on the standard one (I got the same in my boot as my mate did in his A4 Avant + roofbox). You'll probably need the estate to take the dog though.

One thing not to forget is how tall you are, and how you position the seats. My wife and I are both over 6ft and in the Focus we need the seat forward of ideal to cope with the rear facing car seats the tiny ones need. Also isofix, not essential but makes things much easier to manage and less faf fitting the seats.

[SWoll]

LuS1fer said:

SWoll said:

Blimey, taken it a bit personally haven't we?

We've given our arguments, lets hear your's then.

It's above. It's not personal at all, it's pointing out a contradiction.

However, a car company spends millions of pounds designing and addressing issues and comes up with an MPV, such a good concept that everybody invests some more millions and produce their own.

Forum users not that interested in children disagree and suggest an overweight and ancient barge.

I think that might be a little unfair TBH.

I've got 2 kids (8 + 11) and really don't see the purpose of MPV's. Far too many compromises need to be made for what I see as very few benefits.

IMO they sell well because so many people have a: no real interest in driving & b: are brainwashed into believing they need one.

If you need to regularly transport 6/7 people around then fair enough, but other than that I fail to see the advantages over a decent estate car and can see whay PH'ers would feel the same way.

Now if this was mumsnet...

[Silver940]

Congratulations, get sleep in the bank now..

Swap her Fiesta for a Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra

Keep the Clio.

Our post child car history

Sold my Mk2 GTI and took on wifeys MK4

Looked at a Seat Alhambra, Bought a Discovery, said I would never own an MPV.
2nd Child arrived and because the rear belts are of odd design in the Disco and it cost a fortune to run, got robbed and bought a Passat Estate.
Number 3 Arrived about the same time my Dad had to stop driving, bought an Alhambra.
Hmm, now have number 4 and the same Alhambra ( And I still have the Golf!)

Could have saved a load of money and hassle if we'd just bought the Alhambra in the first place!

FWIW, Wifey's favourite was the Passat Estate!

Her fiesta won't be big enough.

[SWoll]

Silver940 said:

Congratulations, get sleep in the bank now..

Swap her Fiesta for a Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra

Keep the Clio.

Our post child car history

Sold my Mk2 GTI and took on wifeys MK4

Looked at a Seat Alhambra, Bought a Discovery, said I would never own an MPV.
2nd Child arrived and because the rear belts are of odd design in the Disco and it cost a fortune to run, got robbed and bought a Passat Estate.
Number 3 Arrived about the same time my Dad had to stop driving, bought an Alhambra.
Hmm, now have number 4 and the same Alhambra ( And I still have the Golf!)

Could have saved a load of money and hassle if we'd just bought the Alhambra in the first place!

FWIW, Wifey's favourite was the Passat Estate!

Her fiesta won't be big enough.

MPV makes sense if you are planning on 3/4 kids, if not I'd still go for a big estate. More than enough space for 2.

[Bill]

SWoll said:

I think that might be a little unfair TBH.

I've got 2 kids (8 + 11) and really don't see the purpose of MPV's. Far too many compromises need to be made for what I see as very few benefits.

IMO they sell well because so many people have a: no real interest in driving & b: are brainwashed into believing they need one.

If you need to regularly transport 6/7 people around then fair enough, but other than that I fail to see the advantages over a decent estate car and can see whay PH'ers would feel the same way.

Now if this was mumsnet...

All car choices are a compromise, and the difference in pace and handling of an estate vs an MPV are small enough to be inconsequential to most. Which leaves only the advantages of more luggage space, more leg room and ease of getting a wriggling child into a seat because of the increased height. Oh, and because of the elevated driving position you can see further, so actually travel faster in safety.

You can get more sporty estates, but for most an MPV makes as much sense.

ETA and bear in mind that most estates are 4 seaters to all intents and purposes.

[Silver940]

SWoll said:

Silver940 said:

Congratulations, get sleep in the bank now..

Swap her Fiesta for a Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra

Keep the Clio.

Our post child car history

Sold my Mk2 GTI and took on wifeys MK4

Looked at a Seat Alhambra, Bought a Discovery, said I would never own an MPV.
2nd Child arrived and because the rear belts are of odd design in the Disco and it cost a fortune to run, got robbed and bought a Passat Estate.
Number 3 Arrived about the same time my Dad had to stop driving, bought an Alhambra.
Hmm, now have number 4 and the same Alhambra ( And I still have the Golf!)

Could have saved a load of money and hassle if we'd just bought the Alhambra in the first place!

FWIW, Wifey's favourite was the Passat Estate!

Her fiesta won't be big enough.

MPV makes sense if you are planning on 3/4 kids, if not I'd still go for a big estate. More than enough space for 2.

Ours came about so we could take parents along too as my Dad stopped driving. But yes I agree, big estate. One thing I was saying to the OP is change her car not yours, She'll need bigger than a Fiesta just for her and 2 babies and the associated monster buggy.

Other advantage of the MPV is wifey and her friends can go out in one car with kids when they are working hard during the day

[Twincam16]

SWoll said:

Silver940 said:

Congratulations, get sleep in the bank now..

Swap her Fiesta for a Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra

Keep the Clio.

Our post child car history

Sold my Mk2 GTI and took on wifeys MK4

Looked at a Seat Alhambra, Bought a Discovery, said I would never own an MPV.
2nd Child arrived and because the rear belts are of odd design in the Disco and it cost a fortune to run, got robbed and bought a Passat Estate.
Number 3 Arrived about the same time my Dad had to stop driving, bought an Alhambra.
Hmm, now have number 4 and the same Alhambra ( And I still have the Golf!)

Could have saved a load of money and hassle if we'd just bought the Alhambra in the first place!

FWIW, Wifey's favourite was the Passat Estate!

Her fiesta won't be big enough.

MPV makes sense if you are planning on 3/4 kids, if not I'd still go for a big estate. More than enough space for 2.

I let a Merc estate out of a turning today that was carrying 4 kids and two parents - adults in the front seats, two kids behind them, two in the back row of rear-facing seats. Still seemed to be room for luggage too - and the two in the rear were in Isofixed car seats.

I'm surprised fewer manufacturers don't go down the six-seat estate route (isn't one of the Peugeot 'SW's a six-seater?). I can't be alone in thinking that most people who've spent their whole life so far driving hatches and saloons won't feel particularly comfortable getting straight into something getting on for the size of a minibus.

[Bill]

Twincam16 said:

I'm surprised fewer manufacturers don't go down the six-seat estate route (isn't one of the Peugeot 'SW's a six-seater?). I can't be alone in thinking that most people who've spent their whole life so far driving hatches and saloons won't feel particularly comfortable getting straight into something getting on for the size of a minibus.

You do talk some nonsense. Most MPVs have the same footprint as an estate, and my ZTT (so not the biggest estate) was longer than my VW Transporter.

[zetec_s6]

In defence of 4x4s it does make life much easier to strap the kids in when they're at the same height as you and they like being able to see more. Obviously the economy and drive are worse than an estate and I'm sure mine blocks the road when the wife takes the kids to school!!

Before choosing something go and look at double buggies, they tend to only fold in half so will fill the boot of most cars as you have to lie them flat as the boot isn't high enough to stand them up.

Once we've finished with the pushchair we'll probably change the XC90 to a large estate or mpv as the running costs will be lower but at the moment it's ideal. I'm sure we could live a focus sized car if we had to but it's nice to just put things in the boot rather than having to put them in a specific order, ideal with 2 crying babies!!

[Twincam16]

Bill said:

Twincam16 said:

I'm surprised fewer manufacturers don't go down the six-seat estate route (isn't one of the Peugeot 'SW's a six-seater?). I can't be alone in thinking that most people who've spent their whole life so far driving hatches and saloons won't feel particularly comfortable getting straight into something getting on for the size of a minibus.

You do talk some nonsense. Most MPVs have the same footprint as an estate, and my ZTT (so not the biggest estate) was longer than my VW Transporter.

Nonsense?

I'm not talking about 'footprint', I'm talking about bulk and its effect on driving dynamics. I've driven dozens of cars, possibly hundreds, and I find it easier to jump between a hatch and an estate than between an estate and what is basically a van. If I needed a six-seater I'd far rather have an estate with an extra pair of seats in the boot than a minibus.

For a clear illustration, have a look at your local supermarket car park. There are legions of motorists out there who have decided for whatever reason that they need an MPV or a 4x4, but clearly can't handle it for toffee, leading to countless door dings, crunched wings, carelessly reversed-into bollards etc. I have a feeling the bulk and the blind spots around the lower quarters of the car have more to do with that than the extra rear length of an estate.

[Borked]

Volvo V70 would be my immediate thought - either a T5, 2.4T, or a D5.

Very reliable, and can run to silly mileages without problem

[Bill]

Twincam16 said:

Nonsense?

I'm not talking about 'footprint', I'm talking about bulk and its effect on driving dynamics. I've driven dozens of cars, possibly hundreds, and I find it easier to jump between a hatch and an estate than between an estate and what is basically a van.

Perhaps you need a bit more practice then?

Honestly, sit a Mondeo next to a Galaxy (next to a Transit minibus if you like) and you'll see that most of the difference in height is glass.

[havoc]

TC, you're ignoring the ergonomics aspect - MPV's and 4x4s are easier to load babies in and out of, esp for women - much lower impact on the back than bending down into a hatchback or estate.

One the kids are old enough to be self-loading cargo, then personal preference can come to the fore again, but for a few years the height is often very worthwhile - we've been told this from many quarters.


Agreed to a degree on dynamics, but I'd suggest a Volvo estate vs an S-Max isn't as uneven a contest as you suggest...esp. when you factor in feedback, progression, etc... and not just grip and grunt.

[LuS1fer]

I can't see how anyone can criticise an MPV and then advocate a tank-sized Mercedes estate, with its associated running costs, which has never been renowned for it's handling save perhaps in AMG guise.

From hard experience, I can say the rear sliding doors and height of the rear seats on the Mazda 5 (way smaller than a Merc estate) made it the best choice for us. It handled, it was as economical as a saloon and was far more practical - more like a large hatch.

I should say, to be fair, that something like a Galaxy etc may be inferior as it is large (though my 72 year old mother drives on) and the seats are fixed or have to be physically hauled out to make more space (though the luggage space is adequate)whereas a Mazda 5 has a large load area with the rear seats folded flat in the floor (and they face forward - I think rear-facing seats are pretty anti-social).

So even for 2 kids, the smaller MPVs make sense. As I have already said, we now have a Mondeo and it is way harder to see out of and judge the length of front and rear, park (it's BIG), the handling is no more rewarding (indeed, the size of it makes it less chuckable) and the rear doors make getting the kids in a nightmare. The only reason we changed the 5 was because with 3 kids, the use of one of the back row of seats reduced the luggage space for a (Large)pushchair and with the Mondeo you can get 3 kids across the back seat and a pushchair and a bike in the boot. The Mondeo was also £3k less than a new Mazda 5 and ours was 4 years old when we px'd it. But I still prefer the 5.

[Bill]

These days AFAIK all MPV boot seats fold flat. Certainly it's true of the Galaxy.

[LuS1fer]

Bill said:

These days AFAIK all MPV boot seats fold flat. Certainly it's true of the Galaxy.

My mother's is an 06 last gen Galaxy and the rear seat backs fold flat onto the seats (largely a useless attribute) but otherwise the seats have to be taken out. Good to see the new ones are better but they're still quite large.