Real world driving - LSD vs no LSD
Discussion
Ok so having never driven a rwd car with an lsd (without a sales guy sat beside me to test it out myself)I am curious to know what the real world practical difference with one and without one are on a rwd car, to be specific the car I am hunting for is a C63. Just want to know if I should bother with an lsd on the spec sheet.
I appreciate the theory of what it does, allows both wheels to spin, sounds great. I just don't want to waste my time hunting for one with an lsd if really I personally won't benefit from it.
All I can compare to is a 2002 C320 we have. No lsd but I seem to be able to waggle the tail out easily in the wet and control pretty nice drifts if i try, it doesn't seem hard control at all. Pulling out a junction with tcs off (as far as it goes off!) I can easily do some tail out stuff. I really want to know what difference would an lsd add. Does it allow for me to get a sideways angle quicker? To hold a slide for longer? etc
Please note although I like to drive hard when the situation allows I don't do many track days nor do I tend to want to get the back end out very often (too scared on public roads!). Out of this fear I tend to back off during corners and be gentle with the throttle. You could call me miss daisy in that respect!
So with that in mind, I would really appreciate if someone could offer their opinion.
I appreciate the theory of what it does, allows both wheels to spin, sounds great. I just don't want to waste my time hunting for one with an lsd if really I personally won't benefit from it.
All I can compare to is a 2002 C320 we have. No lsd but I seem to be able to waggle the tail out easily in the wet and control pretty nice drifts if i try, it doesn't seem hard control at all. Pulling out a junction with tcs off (as far as it goes off!) I can easily do some tail out stuff. I really want to know what difference would an lsd add. Does it allow for me to get a sideways angle quicker? To hold a slide for longer? etc
Please note although I like to drive hard when the situation allows I don't do many track days nor do I tend to want to get the back end out very often (too scared on public roads!). Out of this fear I tend to back off during corners and be gentle with the throttle. You could call me miss daisy in that respect!
So with that in mind, I would really appreciate if someone could offer their opinion.
LSD will get the car to 60 quicker, will stabilise the car when accelerating hard where one tyre has more traction than the other because of the road surface or because the car is cornering. Will also allow you to leave pretty number 11s, doughnut until the tyres pop and make power oversteer easier to maintain.
Day to day you won't notice one bit, with the TC on and gentle/moderate driving. You will only notice the LSD is there when you are exceeding the available grip at the rear tyres and the TCS is off.
I say don't bother unless your planning on using the car on track. On the road you will not miss it, except perhaps you might get 30ft further from your driveway in the snow than you would've.
Day to day you won't notice one bit, with the TC on and gentle/moderate driving. You will only notice the LSD is there when you are exceeding the available grip at the rear tyres and the TCS is off.
I say don't bother unless your planning on using the car on track. On the road you will not miss it, except perhaps you might get 30ft further from your driveway in the snow than you would've.
I find the LSD makes the tail more predictable. For example pulling out of a T and you feel like getting your oppo on, with an open diff sometimes a dab of throttle will have the desired effect sometimes you will just spin the inside wheel up. With an LSD it will always kick out when you want it to.
I don't know about modern LSDs and in particular the Merc ones.
Only experience I have is Alfa 105 GTVs (that's the Bertone shape), which could be had with or without LSD.
The one with the LSD would be more stable under an emergency start and the tradeoff was more understeer in tight corners because, of course, the slip across the driven axle is being limited. That's 1970s LSD technology though. Modern ones must be miles better.
Only experience I have is Alfa 105 GTVs (that's the Bertone shape), which could be had with or without LSD.
The one with the LSD would be more stable under an emergency start and the tradeoff was more understeer in tight corners because, of course, the slip across the driven axle is being limited. That's 1970s LSD technology though. Modern ones must be miles better.
buggalugs said:
I find the LSD makes the tail more predictable. For example pulling out of a T and you feel like getting your oppo on, with an open diff sometimes a dab of throttle will have the desired effect sometimes you will just spin the inside wheel up. With an LSD it will always kick out when you want it to.
That makes sense. I just hope I don't turn into a hooligan driver with such new found power and then regret not having an LSD. In our C320 in the wet the tcs cuts a lot of power, feels sluggish and with tcs off the back slithers out. Would an LSD stop this?
My big heavy V8s had LSD and I wouldn't change that. Getting going out of side roads when it's slippery will be a bit better with the diff. When on the move the back end felt ok even when losing traction. I'd put some of that down to the
LSD. I'd do the same again if I bought another heavy car with lots of torque.
LSD. I'd do the same again if I bought another heavy car with lots of torque.
In my experience.
I went from a jag s type v8(no LSD)to a tuned Monaro VXR (LSD) the LSD enhances control and predicabilty; particularly in the wet. This is obviously more apparent when combined with a manual box.
I personally reckon in something like a C63 it would enhance your enjoyment by making the tcs and esp less nannying, as you have more physical grip.
I went from a jag s type v8(no LSD)to a tuned Monaro VXR (LSD) the LSD enhances control and predicabilty; particularly in the wet. This is obviously more apparent when combined with a manual box.
I personally reckon in something like a C63 it would enhance your enjoyment by making the tcs and esp less nannying, as you have more physical grip.
Vladimir said:
An awful lot of people think they must have one but wouldn't actually notice in a (rather dangerous) blind test.
They are often the ones that think they can brake better with no ABS, don't need TCS and claim to heel and toe at all times.
TCS or traction control is usually a bit of a waste of time, its ESP that make's the most difference, I am not too proud to admit that having gone from FWD with all the electronics to RWD with nothing, even though its "only" 211 bhp is actually a little bit daunting, not just driving it but flinging it about when its wet and cold does focus your attention, its not so much it letting go but it is doing it when there is plenty of space available, have broken traction a few times and my FWD addled self is having a refresher course, coming out of a junction sideways is fun and doesnt require an LSD as I have found out over the last three weeks.They are often the ones that think they can brake better with no ABS, don't need TCS and claim to heel and toe at all times.
Caruso said:
I notice the benefit in daily driving, especially pulling out of wet junctions. It will have more physical traction so you can pull out more safely rather than trying to pull out into a gap only to be stranded by the inside wheel spinning and the TC cutting in.
I concur.....I've had several mkiv Supra's most have Lsd's but my current one doesn't and it also doesn't have traction control but the one wheel spinning up at wet T junctions or round empty roundabouts is a little dull and robs you of traction.J4CKO said:
TCS or traction control is usually a bit of a waste of time, its ESP that make's the most difference, I am not too proud to admit that having gone from FWD with all the electronics to RWD with nothing, even though its "only" 211 bhp is actually a little bit daunting, not just driving it but flinging it about when its wet and cold does focus your attention, its not so much it letting go but it is doing it when there is plenty of space available, have broken traction a few times and my FWD addled self is having a refresher course, coming out of a junction sideways is fun and doesnt require an LSD as I have found out over the last three weeks.
I regularly turn my traction off (you can half disable it or fully switch it off) and it's fun but care is needed. Especially when your tyres are on the limit without you realising. Oops - my usually very careful self got distracted by kids/life and I forgot to check! New boots fitted at the weekend.buggalugs said:
I find the LSD makes the tail more predictable. For example pulling out of a T and you feel like getting your oppo on, with an open diff sometimes a dab of throttle will have the desired effect sometimes you will just spin the inside wheel up. With an LSD it will always kick out when you want it to.
I agree, I noticed this with my old Eunos which had a torsen, it does seem easier to be a hooligan out of junctions than my current UK MX5 with an open diff.right, all i can speak of is from personal experience.
my 24v capri is 200+bhp. live axle, leaf springs with axle location and adjustable konis. NO lsd.
my e36 m3 is the vo version, 321bhp in the glossies, no traction control, lsd as standard.
the capri is clownshoes everywhere. it lets go on the inside wheel in the wet at as low as 5-10mph out of junctions and whatever you're doing, it will always feel more as though the power is trying to leak out of one wheel or the other. admittedly the lack of an lsd is only one contributing factor.
the m3 constantly feels flatter and more poised. if you want it to let go you need to tell it, but when it does it seems to balance the lack of traction across both wheels evenly. if i had recently hypothetically drifted it in the wet round a triangular shape, first at a 30 degree right hand then a few bodylengths later at 60 degrees, it would be very flat and you'd be able to pretty accurately be able to pivot round the front wheel closest to the apex. the capri would look like the general lee being chased on dirt by comparison.
so to answer your question, three.
my 24v capri is 200+bhp. live axle, leaf springs with axle location and adjustable konis. NO lsd.
my e36 m3 is the vo version, 321bhp in the glossies, no traction control, lsd as standard.
the capri is clownshoes everywhere. it lets go on the inside wheel in the wet at as low as 5-10mph out of junctions and whatever you're doing, it will always feel more as though the power is trying to leak out of one wheel or the other. admittedly the lack of an lsd is only one contributing factor.
the m3 constantly feels flatter and more poised. if you want it to let go you need to tell it, but when it does it seems to balance the lack of traction across both wheels evenly. if i had recently hypothetically drifted it in the wet round a triangular shape, first at a 30 degree right hand then a few bodylengths later at 60 degrees, it would be very flat and you'd be able to pretty accurately be able to pivot round the front wheel closest to the apex. the capri would look like the general lee being chased on dirt by comparison.
so to answer your question, three.
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