RE: Chris Harris video: BMW M5 vs Nissan GT-R

[TobyTR]

The £70,000 question Chris Harris: Would you buy a GT-R if it was your £70k?...

The top Journos rave about the GT-R yet they don't put their money where their mouth is.

You say it's got loads of character and it's not a giant Playstation etc, but the fact is there for us all to see in the vid - it's doing the work for you (as you described "fighting against you to keep it straight"). Personally, I wouldn't want a car that drives me.

As for those who want to get into motoring journalism, you need: to be a great writer, flawless spelling/grammar, good communication skills, Journalism/English degree. But most importantly, you need to have the time to make motoring journalism your LIFE, you need to be in the right place at the right time (bit of luck) and you need MONEY to fund it all.

[Dave Hedgehog]

TobyTR said:

The £70,000 question Chris Harris: Would you buy a GT-R if it was your £70k?...

The top Journos rave about the GT-R yet they don't put their money where their mouth is.

You say it's got loads of character and it's not a giant Playstation etc, but the fact is there for us all to see in the vid - it's doing the work for you (as you described "fighting against you to keep it straight"). Personally, I wouldn't want a car that drives me.

As for those who want to get into motoring journalism, you need: to be a great writer, flawless spelling/grammar, good communication skills, Journalism/English degree. But most importantly, you need to have the time to make motoring journalism your LIFE, you need to be in the right place at the right time (bit of luck) and you need MONEY to fund it all.

i thought he made it clear for a couple of days or track its amazing but to live with day to day the BMW everytime

[Diamond blue]

D200 said:

But GTR's are extremely eye wateringly expensive to run - i.e. – far far more expensive then a new 997 Turbo for servicing as an example. Someone on a GTR forum who has one and had a 997 previously has a price list for all the servicing and it’s mental. And while the GTR won’t depreciate as much as an M5 but now when they are over £70k they will depreciate far more heavily than when they were just over £50k, due to the fact they are so expensive to run. Plus they are far far worse mpg then an M5 or 991 etc

Edited by D200 on Thursday 16th February 18:07

Yup, fair point re the depreciation. They've done really well so far, based on stupid cheap price initially, no expensive option list and successive models being more expensive.
But there has been lots of misinformation about costs to run one. 2011 cars have £500 service plans for 3 years (and its free if you use Nissan finance) and they need only an annual service now instead of 6 mthly. You can use a specialist without suffering from warranty issues for pretty reasonable rates. Tyres are pricey but they last 9-12k miles a set and only the dealer only Dunlops cost silly money. The front impact, gearbox breakages and other scare stories are nonsense. bulletproof so far.

Still only get 18 mpg mind you

[J4CKO]

18 MPG doesnt sound that horrendous really, given the performance.

[D200]

Diamond blue said:

Yup, fair point re the depreciation. They've done really well so far, based on stupid cheap price initially, no expensive option list and successive models being more expensive.
But there has been lots of misinformation about costs to run one. 2011 cars have £500 service plans for 3 years (and its free if you use Nissan finance) and they need only an annual service now instead of 6 mthly. You can use a specialist without suffering from warranty issues for pretty reasonable rates. Tyres are pricey but they last 9-12k miles a set and only the dealer only Dunlops cost silly money. The front impact, gearbox breakages and other scare stories are nonsense. bulletproof so far.

Still only get 18 mpg mind you

Right enough, I forgot about that service pack from 2011 on, pre 2011 they were much more expensive to run. But saying the servicing doesn't include everything obviously - new disks and pads £2k for example and other parts not included in the pack are expensive too. While its not too bad its not a bargain sports car that can be run on a tight budget

[D200]

Diamond blue said:

I see you have previously owned a GTR - and loads of great cars too, you have very good taste must concur!

Out if interest how long did you have the GTR and why did you sell it?

And in what order did you own all the cars listed?

Maybe you traded the GTR for the 'scud which would be an acceptable upgrade considering you seem very fond of the GTR

And did you prefer the GTR to the 997 GT3?


EDIT

I see you mention some purchase date but not disposal date - but from what I see now it seems to be 997 GT3 > M3 > GTR > Scud

Edited by D200 on Thursday 16th February 20:15

[anonymous-user]

His face at 11.44 (ish) says it all! Cracking video and I would appily settle for either.

[Diamond blue]

D200 said:

I see you have previously owned a GTR - and loads of great cars too, you have very good taste must concur!

Out if interest how long did you have the GTR and why did you sell it?

And in what order did you own all the cars listed?

Maybe you traded the GTR for the 'scud which would be an acceptable upgrade considering you seem very fond of the GTR

And did you prefer the GTR to the 997 GT3?


EDIT

I see you mention some purchase date but not disposal date - but from what I see now it seems to be 997 GT3 > M3 > GTR > Scud

Edited by D200 on Thursday 16th February 20:15

Thats the order
I was very fond of all of em, Am lucky enough to be able to have a daily driver most of the time. Exception being when the 2008 problems caused some serious economising. The M3 is the only one that had to do everything and I thought it was the perfect all rounder for anyone who loves cars and driving. I think the M5 is similarly talented but its bigger than I would need.

The GTR was a revelation , even better than I imagined, and it was great fun tuning and improving it even further.Ran 600 odd bhp and was mental.
GT3 is different and offers things that possibly no other car can. Steering feel, damping and suspension control , and the way the car is so communicative is better than the Nissan.
In real terms it wouldn't be able to keep up in most cases with the GTR but it could knock out lap after lap of a track, slightly slower, than the GTR that would be in the pits cooling down after 3 or 4.
Scud is MUCH more showy than either and its taken some getting used to. Its loud, flashy and a real pose. Its a different attitude required and you just can't be a shrinking violet.
Still not sure its me tbh

[chim]

Holy st guys, Chris is no doubt a nice a bloke and it's good to see some Vids up on PH........the frikken love-in comments though are getting a bit much, I've been reaching for the sycophant puke bucket at times.

Back to the cars, appreciate that the GTR is a wondrous machine, as a feat of engineering and car system management is it unsurpassed, it is sublime in its handling, it is responsive in ways that even Ferrari can only dream of, it's delivery of power is incredible...... It does though still leave me cold, I have driven it, I have admired it, I have though, never wanted it.

Strange thing is I can not for the life of me figure out why I don't want one, on paper I should crave this more than any other performance car as it just ticks all the boxes in this price bracket. I don't though, when I think about it it just, well, leaves me cold. Very strange.

The M5 on the other hand just seems to fit its place a lot better, it is almost the default choice for a performance cruiser. Nothing else really matches up to it.

[bgmorri]

Who needs frankly long in the tooth and celeb focussed Top Gear when you get quality videos like this. Well done Chris Harris.

[D200]

Good stuff, I saw and more noticeably heard, a 430 scud just once, looked and sounded amazing, pure race car. I thought it was motorbike initially due to the high pitched intense wail from it, nice. If in the position to buy one you would be mad not too - even if you didn't keep it too long - to own one for any time would be a privilege. Enjoy

[D200]

bgmorri said:

Who needs frankly long in the tooth and celeb focussed Top Gear when you get quality videos like this. Well done Chris Harris.

You better not big up Chris too much or you'll be making poor Mr Chim puke

[j123]

veryslowone said:

I couldn't take my eyes off the headrest on the M5. It was like a red leather Honda Robot cuddling Chris. It's no wonder the car is so heavy, they must weigh 100kg each.

With the best roads in Britain being B roads and with the price of petrol being 140+ and soon to go up to 150+ I think they are both dinosaurs. Which is not a put down, both fantastic cars.

YES this is the next question Chris should tackle. Yes we get that the M5 is a more comfortable everyday usable super fast car for most of the time; BUT the GTR is a milestone car, probably the most able handling thing ever built outside of WRC, and as such:

WE need to see more comparisons of the GTR with cars that are designed to do a similar thing- how about a Litchfeld Impreza, a Megane rs. Lets see if all the technology and the "weight" theory really pans out on real roads. Is MR GTRsan right that this is the ultimate (heavy is good) way to get from a to b with competence and fun, or does the GTR merely serve to show up other big monster supercars who are too wide and low or high and heavy to make confident progress in day to day???

[j123]

Diamond blue said:

Thats the order
I was very fond of all of em, Am lucky enough to be able to have a daily driver most of the time. Exception being when the 2008 problems caused some serious economising. The M3 is the only one that had to do everything and I thought it was the perfect all rounder for anyone who loves cars and driving. I think the M5 is similarly talented but its bigger than I would need.

The GTR was a revelation , even better than I imagined, and it was great fun tuning and improving it even further.Ran 600 odd bhp and was mental.
GT3 is different and offers things that possibly no other car can. Steering feel, damping and suspension control , and the way the car is so communicative is better than the Nissan.
In real terms it wouldn't be able to keep up in most cases with the GTR but it could knock out lap after lap of a track, slightly slower, than the GTR that would be in the pits cooling down after 3 or 4.
Scud is MUCH more showy than either and its taken some getting used to. Its loud, flashy and a real pose. Its a different attitude required and you just can't be a shrinking violet.
Still not sure its me tbh

Excellent summation of your cars! IMHO better than most journalists have written, no joke. J

[RemyMartin]

John D. said:

Couldn't take my eyes of it too! Really didn't look right somehow.

Theres at least three weirdos on PH, I was staring at them the whole video

[marka1781]

Interesting watch love the detail about how they handle when pushed, if only Top Gear really went in to that detail! Chris is a petrol head through & through keep on bringing us stuff like this(Mclaren F1 ride was something else)

Good on pistonheads for allowing this to happen

[Diamond blue]

D200 said:

Good stuff, I saw and more noticeably heard, a 430 scud just once, looked and sounded amazing, pure race car. I thought it was motorbike initially due to the high pitched intense wail from it, nice. If in the position to buy one you would be mad not too - even if you didn't keep it too long - to own one for any time would be a privilege. Enjoy

Thats exactly the way to think about it I reckon, its a priviledge and needs to be savoured.

I thought the 6 in the GT3 was fabulous but its overshadowed by the Ferrari engine. It feels every bit 100 bhp more powerful and the noise is addictive. Its a fantastic engine.
It also rides better than the GT3 (and the GTR) and doesn't smack its nose on the ground every 10 mins.

[Guibo]

Diamond blue said:

But the ladies you refer to as preferring the looks of an M5 if they are anything like non-petrolheads of my aquaintance would simply not be able to tell it apart from the sport bodykitted 520d on the neighbours drive. Q car credentials it may well have but its a LOT of money to spend on a car that only certain enthusiasts recognize.

But those ladies may very well be more impressed with someone driving a 520d than someone driving a GT-R. If you've bought a car to impress people (which I'm not saying you should), wouldn't the car that impresses more people (ie, non-petrolheads of any gender) still have a lot going for it?

paul_k said:

They are both great cars, quite surprised that the M5 is over 200Kg heavier though especially as it is not 4WD.

Not too surprising. Physically, it's a larger car being nearly 10" longer and over 3" taller. Adding 5.5" to the 528i's wheelbase already adds about 145kg, according to data for the Chinese-market 528Li. Factor in the proper seating in the rear, additional doors (+ associated power locks and windows), 2 extra cylinders, the extra gear and probably more standard equipment over the GT-R. But yeah, they're both heavyweights.

[Diamond blue]

j123 said:

Excellent summation of your cars! IMHO better than most journalists have written, no joke. J

Thanks,
much appreciated.

Ref your point about the best point to point car"

YES this is the next question Chris should tackle. Yes we get that the M5 is a more comfortable everyday usable super fast car for most of the time; BUT the GTR is a milestone car, probably the most able handling thing ever built outside of WRC, and as such:

WE need to see more comparisons of the GTR with cars that are designed to do a similar thing- how about a Litchfeld Impreza, a Megane rs. Lets see if all the technology and the "weight" theory really pans out on real roads. Is MR GTRsan right that this is the ultimate (heavy is good) way to get from a to b with competence and fun, or does the GTR merely serve to show up other big monster supercars who are too wide and low or high and heavy to make confident progress in day to day???




The earlier Autocar reference about the Focus RS shows it well. On a bumpy road that has few straights a supple , well sorted, fast hatch would keep up with a GT3 for example and a Scuderia. The GTR has more weapons (4WD , GR6 double clutch transmission etc) but it would need a bit of space to get away. Its wide and its ride is TOO hard in those circumstances.

[ZeeTacoe]

For 70 grand I'd want Nissan to paint it properly and not leave that awful strip along the bottom of the car.