RE: SOTW: Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
Discussion
In the mid-late 90's I was based with the RAF in Germany - so many people were buying these cars from German FIAT dealers tax free & at such a knock down price they were EVERYWHERE on camp - even the lowest paid SAC would be driving one! It must have flooded the UK market when they were brought back over to be sold. Wouldn't surprise me if this one was first UK registered in Maidstone...
Whenever I see one of these cars (which is not often now), it takes me back to those happy, tax free days in RAFG!!! :-)
Whenever I see one of these cars (which is not often now), it takes me back to those happy, tax free days in RAFG!!! :-)
My brother has a red non-turbo, it really is a beautiful car. It's one of those cars I thought was alright when new, but really admire now. It definitely gets attention from people and hasn't suffered from any of the horror stories that people tell about these cars. Every so often I get tempted to pick one up myself as I think they are very under valued at present (badge snobbery probably). If I did it would have to be red or yellow though.
Back in 1997 (when I was 20) I was very tempted by one of these but I couldn't bring myself to get one because of the FWD layout. I really liked the styling back then and I still quite like it now, but as a car for a young man to enjoy pushing on with, it left me feeling very disappointed. This car could have been an all-time classic if it had RWD and tasty handling, it had everything else going for it. I really wanted it to be better.
In the end, I picked up an Impreza Turbo (which was still very rare back in 1997) and never regretted it. I knew I'd made the right decision when I came up against a 20VT on the motorway and showed it who was boss.
I still have a soft spot for the Fiat though, even though I know I'll never buy one.
In the end, I picked up an Impreza Turbo (which was still very rare back in 1997) and never regretted it. I knew I'd made the right decision when I came up against a 20VT on the motorway and showed it who was boss.
I still have a soft spot for the Fiat though, even though I know I'll never buy one.
I guess I'll be the first coupe-nutter to reply then.....
I'm on my third 20vt. I bent the first one but the second one lasted until 246,000 miles, at which point, the rust caused me to break it (wasn't the car's fault, a respray left some badges poorly sealed, which let water in).
When I first got it, I tweaked it to about 300bhp, but then killed it when the coolant cap failed and chucked all the coolant out. A rebuild with forged bits took the power to well over 400bhp, which is where it stayed for the next four years. During those years, I entered Ten of the Best six times in a row, eventually winning the FWD handling class two years running. It also managed a 12.38 quarter at 119mph at the Pod.
When the car was dismantled, the engine and all the other modifications were transferred to another (newer) shell, and I'm still driving it today. The base engine has now done more than a quarter of a million miles and was dyno'd a couple of weeks ago at 452bhp
However, despite being a Coupe devotee, I'm not blind to the shortcomings. 220bhp is perfectly OK through the front wheels, with the Viscodrive device spreading the load. However, at this time of year, 400+ bhp is certainly a challenge in any of the three lower gears. In the dry however, there's no traction issues in second or above. Also - let's get this out of the way now - there's almost no torque steer to worry about. If your Coupe is pulling around, it needs attention.
There are also some dogs out there, owned by people with enough money to buy a rough one, but no money to maintain it. They will wind up the boost and get a genuine (but temporary) 260+ bhp and then it'll die a painful death, by virtue of overboost, poor oil and cheap supermarket fuel, at which point, the image will once again be tarnished for those not in the know.
So - bad points...
Marmite looks
A poor one is a money pit (and there are some poor ones around)
Servicing isn't cheap, although (as usual) specialists take a lot of the financial pain out of ownership
FWD isn't the best dynamic solution, although it really isn't bad.
It's ten+ year old Italian steel - rust WILL get it eventually
25mpg
Fit & finish isn't up to German standards, although a session with a screwdriver set works wonders for squeaks & rattles
They use a bit of oil (as most 90s turbo cars do)
General running costs are fairly high for a £1k - £3k car
Anything above about 330bhp is nudging the limit of the standard pistons and 350lb-ft is about the limit on standard rods.
Good points...
Marmite looks
Bang per buck is pretty much unbeatable
Lovely 5-pot noise
Secure handling
Great brakes (four-pot Brembos)
VERY modd'able
True four-seater
Extremely quick, even when only lightly modded
Very knowledgable forum (check out www.fccuk.org/forum )
And to refute some common myths...
Cambelt can be done for less than £400 by specialists (rather than £1200 by Fiat)
Traction really isn't an issue
Set up correctly (with modern dampers and chassis tweaks), they handle very well
Pininfarina only designed the inside - Chris Bangle did the exterior
They were built at the Pininfarina factory, not at Fiat
The electrics are generally pretty good
They don't self-destruct before 100,000 miles - the Club has several at 200,000+
I'm on my third 20vt. I bent the first one but the second one lasted until 246,000 miles, at which point, the rust caused me to break it (wasn't the car's fault, a respray left some badges poorly sealed, which let water in).
When I first got it, I tweaked it to about 300bhp, but then killed it when the coolant cap failed and chucked all the coolant out. A rebuild with forged bits took the power to well over 400bhp, which is where it stayed for the next four years. During those years, I entered Ten of the Best six times in a row, eventually winning the FWD handling class two years running. It also managed a 12.38 quarter at 119mph at the Pod.
When the car was dismantled, the engine and all the other modifications were transferred to another (newer) shell, and I'm still driving it today. The base engine has now done more than a quarter of a million miles and was dyno'd a couple of weeks ago at 452bhp
However, despite being a Coupe devotee, I'm not blind to the shortcomings. 220bhp is perfectly OK through the front wheels, with the Viscodrive device spreading the load. However, at this time of year, 400+ bhp is certainly a challenge in any of the three lower gears. In the dry however, there's no traction issues in second or above. Also - let's get this out of the way now - there's almost no torque steer to worry about. If your Coupe is pulling around, it needs attention.
There are also some dogs out there, owned by people with enough money to buy a rough one, but no money to maintain it. They will wind up the boost and get a genuine (but temporary) 260+ bhp and then it'll die a painful death, by virtue of overboost, poor oil and cheap supermarket fuel, at which point, the image will once again be tarnished for those not in the know.
So - bad points...
Marmite looks
A poor one is a money pit (and there are some poor ones around)
Servicing isn't cheap, although (as usual) specialists take a lot of the financial pain out of ownership
FWD isn't the best dynamic solution, although it really isn't bad.
It's ten+ year old Italian steel - rust WILL get it eventually
25mpg
Fit & finish isn't up to German standards, although a session with a screwdriver set works wonders for squeaks & rattles
They use a bit of oil (as most 90s turbo cars do)
General running costs are fairly high for a £1k - £3k car
Anything above about 330bhp is nudging the limit of the standard pistons and 350lb-ft is about the limit on standard rods.
Good points...
Marmite looks
Bang per buck is pretty much unbeatable
Lovely 5-pot noise
Secure handling
Great brakes (four-pot Brembos)
VERY modd'able
True four-seater
Extremely quick, even when only lightly modded
Very knowledgable forum (check out www.fccuk.org/forum )
And to refute some common myths...
Cambelt can be done for less than £400 by specialists (rather than £1200 by Fiat)
Traction really isn't an issue
Set up correctly (with modern dampers and chassis tweaks), they handle very well
Pininfarina only designed the inside - Chris Bangle did the exterior
They were built at the Pininfarina factory, not at Fiat
The electrics are generally pretty good
They don't self-destruct before 100,000 miles - the Club has several at 200,000+
I've had two 20VTs. The first was under three years old when I bought it and I had it for three years. At the time it was the fastest car I'd ever owned and loved it. The only car I've ever written off. I went back a few years later only to find that they haven't aged well.
Even a well maintained example will feel slack - they just weren't built to last. They are starting to suffer with terminal rust too, although it tends to be hidden in the rear arches so buyer beware. In hindsight the handling is laughable. Just plant it in a bend and the viscous diff will help pull you in roughly the direction you're pointing, but there's no precision or poise and understeer is abound on anything but dry tarmac.
They can be maintained relatively cheaply using specialists, but one man's cheap is another man's excruciating, especially when they've bought for a grand. Unfortunately, at this price it's no wonder they're bought by chavs, thrashed, undermaintained and have suffered imagewise. It's going to be many, many years beofre only the very best of the model are worth any money.
Excellent bang for buck, well, until they go bang. Which it will. Shame.
Even a well maintained example will feel slack - they just weren't built to last. They are starting to suffer with terminal rust too, although it tends to be hidden in the rear arches so buyer beware. In hindsight the handling is laughable. Just plant it in a bend and the viscous diff will help pull you in roughly the direction you're pointing, but there's no precision or poise and understeer is abound on anything but dry tarmac.
They can be maintained relatively cheaply using specialists, but one man's cheap is another man's excruciating, especially when they've bought for a grand. Unfortunately, at this price it's no wonder they're bought by chavs, thrashed, undermaintained and have suffered imagewise. It's going to be many, many years beofre only the very best of the model are worth any money.
Excellent bang for buck, well, until they go bang. Which it will. Shame.
I currently have an itch that needs scratching for one of these, or an Alfa GTV V6. There are so many stories about high maintenance costs on both though, which is rather offputting. I find the stying of both a little quirky, but very appealing. If I were to jump in I can see that it would be a bit of a pampered weekend only car.
Why do I come on here and read these posts? I can feel my bank balance groaning at the mere thought of buying a temperamental little Italian!
Why do I come on here and read these posts? I can feel my bank balance groaning at the mere thought of buying a temperamental little Italian!
My 20VT was ink black with tan leather. Loved the car, had a hybrid turbo, unichip and a few other mods that gave it 260hp + 260ft/lbs, (they can easily be taken over 300hp with new turbo, intercooler etc). It was pretty quick. Third gear would take you to 100mph. The viscous LSD actually worked very well, full throttle acceleration in second gear with no wheelspin, (something I can't do in my new Octavia VRS TSI with less power and wider wheels). Decent boot for a coupe plus could fit 2 adults in the back. Had a couple of fun runs against a Porsche Cayman and a Ferrari 360 in it on different occasions on the country roads near where I live. Whist both cars are obviously quicker, the Fiat would stick pretty much with them, until any really long straights appeared. (These were country roads not a race track so all cars not driven flat out and therefore were pretty even as none of us had a death wish.)
However car did cost me more than any other so far in terms of things going wrong. New engine required due to a missing circlip and the gudgeon pin scored the bore, turbo died (had done 90k miles and was replaced with hybrid). Miss the car as it was genuinely fast and I thought pretty, but the thought of maintenance costs on one now would put me off another one as a toy. Bought car for £5k, spent at least same again during ownership, sold for £2.5k two years later....
P443UFA where are you now?????
However car did cost me more than any other so far in terms of things going wrong. New engine required due to a missing circlip and the gudgeon pin scored the bore, turbo died (had done 90k miles and was replaced with hybrid). Miss the car as it was genuinely fast and I thought pretty, but the thought of maintenance costs on one now would put me off another one as a toy. Bought car for £5k, spent at least same again during ownership, sold for £2.5k two years later....
P443UFA where are you now?????
Cassius81 said:
Agree re Jurgen's car - lovely, and I'm not the biggest fan of these.
Maybe it is just me, but something about the European plates seems to improve the looks too...
I think the smaller European plates show more of the vents in the front bumper. The only slight gripe is the pylons for the headlamp washers. Maybe it is just me, but something about the European plates seems to improve the looks too...
Jurgen also needs praise for not painting the console trim body colour.
I love these cars, I wanted one for years in fact I still do!
This was the first fast car I ever went in and the 0-60 really doesn't do it justice they really are pretty rapid
They also sound fantastic IMHO.
Very tempted just to take a punt with 1k and have one for 6 months and hopefully sell it on unscathed
This was the first fast car I ever went in and the 0-60 really doesn't do it justice they really are pretty rapid
They also sound fantastic IMHO.
Very tempted just to take a punt with 1k and have one for 6 months and hopefully sell it on unscathed
0-60 times (just over 6 seconds) are impressive, even by today's standard, but that doesn't tell you the whole story.
On the Coupe forum, we have a tongue-in-cheek thing about the "magic third gear". It's good for trundling round town at 20mph, but it'll run to well over 100 if you're prepared to find the rev limiter. On my car with it's increased limiter, it's good for over 110.
The best bit about this car is once its rolling - the 40-100 times are very good, even as standard. A bit of gentle modding turns it into an M3-baiter and some heavy modding turns it into a proper supercar-worryer (I'm doing 0-100 in around 9 seconds and 0-150 in around 22).
Its a great feeling, winding up cars of ten or twenty times the value in a little Fiat worth two or three grand at best. Certainly the drivers of a Bentley Continental GT, a Ferrari 360, an M3 CSL and a DB9 all had a look of surprise and disgust on their faces as they were shown the Coupe's stumpy ar$e....
I REALLY need to get my car to V-Max, as I have no idea what it'll do. I know it reaches 150 from standstill in just 1km, so I reckon 1.5 miles with a 60+mph rolling start should see me into the 170s
Not bad for a Shed....
On the Coupe forum, we have a tongue-in-cheek thing about the "magic third gear". It's good for trundling round town at 20mph, but it'll run to well over 100 if you're prepared to find the rev limiter. On my car with it's increased limiter, it's good for over 110.
The best bit about this car is once its rolling - the 40-100 times are very good, even as standard. A bit of gentle modding turns it into an M3-baiter and some heavy modding turns it into a proper supercar-worryer (I'm doing 0-100 in around 9 seconds and 0-150 in around 22).
Its a great feeling, winding up cars of ten or twenty times the value in a little Fiat worth two or three grand at best. Certainly the drivers of a Bentley Continental GT, a Ferrari 360, an M3 CSL and a DB9 all had a look of surprise and disgust on their faces as they were shown the Coupe's stumpy ar$e....
I REALLY need to get my car to V-Max, as I have no idea what it'll do. I know it reaches 150 from standstill in just 1km, so I reckon 1.5 miles with a 60+mph rolling start should see me into the 170s
Not bad for a Shed....
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff