RE: PH Blog: Audi calls a truce
Discussion
flatline84 said:
Depends what you define as real world performance. Rolling from 40-50 to 80-90 which is really what most do - the C63 will probably embarass the RS4
Not the case at all! Driving in this morning, I tried to overtake a lorry, and had the TC cut in twice, with the back end twitching. Im sure the RS4 would have just sailed by! Trust me, its not that often you can use full throttle. The conditions and road surface need to be perfect!
Pittsy98 said:
Not the case at all! Driving in this morning, I tried to overtake a lorry, and had the TC cut in twice, with the back end twitching. Im sure the RS4 would have just sailed by! Trust me, its not that often you can use full throttle. The conditions and road surface need to be perfect!
Really refreshing to see an owner give an honest real world assessment of his car!!!
TC is obviously a bit of a pain to you. Merc is still a serious piece of kit!!
Edited by Nors on Friday 17th February 12:17
As with the B7, I suspect that the quoted 0-60 times will be much quicker than quoted (prob in the region of 4.2 or 4.3 secs) - escpecially with the auto clutch if it has a brutal gear change and matches gear ratios with speeds etc. The rev counter also goes to 8200rpm before the limited - 200 more than present.
In the real world, I think it will feel quite a bit quicker than the B7 and the hint of paying extra for the extra top speed seems to suggest a Porsche "S" style model which could extracs more power from the engine.
Would I swap my RS4 B7 for this one? I think I would have to have a go in one first rather than saying an immediate 'yes' - but hats off to Audi for keeping the V8! It's the best soundtrack.
In the real world, I think it will feel quite a bit quicker than the B7 and the hint of paying extra for the extra top speed seems to suggest a Porsche "S" style model which could extracs more power from the engine.
Would I swap my RS4 B7 for this one? I think I would have to have a go in one first rather than saying an immediate 'yes' - but hats off to Audi for keeping the V8! It's the best soundtrack.
DutchSi said:
The rev counter also goes to 8200rpm before the limited - 200 more than present.
And that's where the extra 30 ponies are found.I do think the n/a v8 is a let down really.
Didn't Monkey review the RS5 for evo at ascari. Audi kindly gave them use of an S4 as a camera car or something, and the S4 was glued to the RS5 on WOT.
So, the sensible choice would be an S4, save yourself £15k and put some of that money into remap, exhaust and brakes and have a 420bhp and 400lb/ft supercharged 'S' car that humlbes the latest 'RS'.
It's what I think I'll be doing now the specs of this latest RS4 are out.
As for the brakes!?!
Nors said:
Really refreshing to see an owner give an honest real world assessment of his car!!!
TC is obviously a bit of a pain to you. Merc is still a serious piece of kit!!
Don't get me wrong, I love my C63. Im only in the 3rd month of ownership and I am in no way disspointed.TC is obviously a bit of a pain to you. Merc is still a serious piece of kit!!
Edited by Nors on Friday 17th February 12:17
The sound alone (especially on cold start-up) is enough to keep me happy!
Interestingly, my brother has a Jaguar XFR, and he experiences the same problem. Realistically It's probably because we of 'average' driving ability, and so we leave the TC firmly set to the ON position, but I feel with an AWD setup, you could use more of the performance more of the time.
With this in mind, a Nissan R35 is next on the cards in a couple of years!
IMO... I Love the way people are disappointed with only 450Bhp in the New RS4...you must really need to get your dog to the park of your kids to playgroup in a hurry to need more BHP...don't get me wrong, i am delighted that these models exist, but to me they seam alittle pointless...too fast for the road, too heavy for the track and massively overpriced (does an RS6 honestly cost more the 2.5 times to maufacture than a 2.0TDI A6?...add up the bits)... where does their natural habitat lie?
I think we are entering a new era that will be a battle between the manufactureres of agility/low emissions. Think about it; fuel prices are not got down. Many car enthusiasts are starting to go away from lots of different cars on there driveway and have practical fun everyday cars.
Take a look at how popular the Panamera and Cayenne Diesels are becoming. Both of these cars drive beautifully yet have much lower running costs than their petrol counterparts. They are refined engines with better mpg and low emissions which keep the fuel prices and tax prices down. Additionally they are better to have as company cars due to tax liabilities.
There are many other cars out there that people choose to have in smaller engine format with narrower tyres - the reason being that for everyday on the roads you will have more fun as the 'limit' of the car is slower and thus easier to drive near the limit without travelling at 100 leptons.
I relish the way forward where cars become lighter, more fun and more accessible than the 500+BHP heavy machinery running today. Think about it; less power will result in lighter cars and less technology (driving aids) taking over to counteract the heavy weight of the big vehicles today.
Roll on the future!
Take a look at how popular the Panamera and Cayenne Diesels are becoming. Both of these cars drive beautifully yet have much lower running costs than their petrol counterparts. They are refined engines with better mpg and low emissions which keep the fuel prices and tax prices down. Additionally they are better to have as company cars due to tax liabilities.
There are many other cars out there that people choose to have in smaller engine format with narrower tyres - the reason being that for everyday on the roads you will have more fun as the 'limit' of the car is slower and thus easier to drive near the limit without travelling at 100 leptons.
I relish the way forward where cars become lighter, more fun and more accessible than the 500+BHP heavy machinery running today. Think about it; less power will result in lighter cars and less technology (driving aids) taking over to counteract the heavy weight of the big vehicles today.
Roll on the future!
Itsallicanafford said:
IMO... I Love the way people are disappointed with only 450Bhp in the New RS4...you must really need to get your dog to the park of your kids to playgroup in a hurry to need more BHP...don't get me wrong, i am delighted that these models exist, but to me they seam alittle pointless...too fast for the road, too heavy for the track and massively overpriced (does an RS6 honestly cost more the 2.5 times to maufacture than a 2.0TDI A6?...add up the bits)... where does their natural habitat lie?
+1 ... perfectly putdasherdiablo1 said:
Itsallicanafford said:
IMO... I Love the way people are disappointed with only 450Bhp in the New RS4...you must really need to get your dog to the park of your kids to playgroup in a hurry to need more BHP...don't get me wrong, i am delighted that these models exist, but to me they seam alittle pointless...too fast for the road, too heavy for the track and massively overpriced (does an RS6 honestly cost more the 2.5 times to maufacture than a 2.0TDI A6?...add up the bits)... where does their natural habitat lie?
+1 ... perfectly putYou know this is Pistonheads right?
The power war may be over for Audi (was tempted to write ze instead of the), but considering Ferrari should be announcing the new 599 replacement next week with a rumoured 700bhp the struggle for more power still seems to go on. I'm sure marketing demands this sort of power (in Ferrari's case I suspect they want to ensure they are ahead of the German saloons) but I doubt it will be a much better drivers car than a ten year old 550, with over 200bhp less.
Dr S said:
Power only matters as long as you can use it and it makes a difference to the driving experience...
Pirelli put this very well. Power is nothing without control.Didn't Porsche say with their latest beastie that there were better was to make a car fast, than simply giving it more BHP. (Something similar anyway)
So I agree with our resident Ape. The power war is over. Until they come up with better control that is....
Nors said:
Mind you, the B8 S4 has less power than the previous B7 S4, yet, it's still quicker. So it is possible obviously.
On paper, yes. However it would appear that Audi have bee telling porkies or are using slightly fatter bhps than anyone else as the current S4 almost certainly puts out significantly more than the 330ish it's supposed to. Alternatively, the S4 quattro drivetrain is weirdly efficient.The most obvious reason being that they needed to differentiate between the S4/5 and the Rs4/5. If they'd put the S4 down as 380bhp for example (not that people reckon it's this much - 360 is the usual guesstimation), the 450bhp of the RS4 would suddenly look even more unimpressive and they'd be forced to ramp it up to 500 which then means the RS6 needs more etc etc.
b14 said:
.....and certainly the V10 from the R8 or the RS6 would be a step too far in terms of size.
I've never heard such nonsense! 
The bigger the better!
On a serious note though, putting the V10 in an RS4 would be no more 'Mad' than say; putting an AMG V8 in an SLK55, or a V12 in a Vantage
I'm sure with enough muscle they could squeeze it in there.
Pittsy98 said:
Don't get me wrong, I love my C63. Im only in the 3rd month of ownership and I am in no way disspointed.
The sound alone (especially on cold start-up) is enough to keep me happy!
Interestingly, my brother has a Jaguar XFR, and he experiences the same problem. Realistically It's probably because we of 'average' driving ability, and so we leave the TC firmly set to the ON position, but I feel with an AWD setup, you could use more of the performance more of the time.
With this in mind, a Nissan R35 is next on the cards in a couple of years!
I think your/your brother experience is probably the most realistic of what actually hapens in day to day use with these cars with powerful RWD configuration, instead of people spouting off about performance figures and lap times.The sound alone (especially on cold start-up) is enough to keep me happy!
Interestingly, my brother has a Jaguar XFR, and he experiences the same problem. Realistically It's probably because we of 'average' driving ability, and so we leave the TC firmly set to the ON position, but I feel with an AWD setup, you could use more of the performance more of the time.
With this in mind, a Nissan R35 is next on the cards in a couple of years!
Weather, driver ability and who really flings their £50+k car sideway rounds corners on public roads must come into the equation.
Personally, I opted for 4WD, principly, because I like to drive briskly on occasion, love high powered cars but due to my limited driving skills, I need the added security of 4WD to give me any confindence to plant the throttle whilst pulling out to pass something. (especially when I spend most of the time on A roads with limited passing opportunities)
However, on a dry day in the right conditions/right speed, the Merc/Jag will show a clean pair to most things out there and as you say, the noise is something else!!
Edited by Nors on Friday 17th February 14:04
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