RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5
Discussion
alock said:
Kong said:
But most of the critisism here you can also aim at the AMG or the XFR.
I don't see it like that. I would never criticise an American muscle car for rolling around in the corners. I wouldn't criticise an entry level Elise for it's straight line performance over 100mph.The character of what an AMG Merc or an R Jag should be, is captured very well in the latest models. The character of what many people expect from a M BMW is not captured as well in the latest M5.
BMW rely on their brand prestige and history but with that they have to accept that if they move away from the qualities that defined that brand then a minority of vocal people will criticise it.
I agree that it's been softened a bit but this was deliberate and from the reviews I've read still has the dynamics to backup the M5 badge.
In my view these are the core values of the M5:
- Look very similar to a regular 5 to the untrained eye.
- Retain all of the practicality and usability of the regular 5
- Be great to drive
- Beat it's rivals around a track
Therefore the F10 is continuing the M5 tradition.
I think the mainstream M-division products have been gradually tending towards the AMG way of looking at things for years (with the odd blip in the other direction), this is just another step in that direction. Almost every time they release a car, people complain that it's got softer and less focussed than it's predecessor and then it goes on to out-sell it.
BMW is giving the market largely what it wants.
BMW is giving the market largely what it wants.
bakerstreet said:
otolith said:
Even if the noise isn't actually coming from the engine, but is being synthesised and played through the car's speakers?
I dont mind manufacrures tweaking the actual exhaust, but I wouldn't like it generated by speakers in the car. I presume the technology is all ready out there to do that. Mr Whippy said:
The roads are not getting bigger though.
It's got to end quite soon... and plenty of people still like a car that takes up X amount of space on Y road... a ratio that doesn't really change... if anything it makes these super fast cars even more stupid, since you can't use them until you are on boring big wide roads with no character anyway.
Dave
it's about the same width as my 7 series, which was effectively released 18 years ago (1994 i think the e38 came out); so the 5 has become as wide as the 7 in 18 years. it can't keep going on, but the growth isn't as rapid as some suggest IMO.It's got to end quite soon... and plenty of people still like a car that takes up X amount of space on Y road... a ratio that doesn't really change... if anything it makes these super fast cars even more stupid, since you can't use them until you are on boring big wide roads with no character anyway.
Dave
i've driven mine on thin country roads and haven't found it much harder or more of an issue than my 1982 E21. that's just personal experience with how i've been finding the 7, which is also longer than the current M5.
maybe
kambites said:
jbi said:
Width is a good thing... it adds to the cars stability and improves cornering
That's width to height ratio, not outright width. The problem with this car is quite simple.
In many parts of the country ( especially where most of the possible customers probably live ) for every hour of hooning there will be tens of hours of doing normal speeds in traffic, going to Sainsburys, dropping the Mrs off at the shops, etc etc etc.
In all these circumstances, the car is not "special" enough to make a difference. Pretty soon you would realise that a 535d would do the job.
Once that realisation enters your head, it will never leave. And you won't have a nurburgring/private track/ awesomely grippy B road free of traffic cameras, to hoon about on to remind yourself of why you bought the car in the first place. Its awesome performance will not reveal itself often enough.
I am beginning to come round to the notion that " do it all" perfect supercars that can carry the kids and do 180mph are sadly wasted in this country, UNLESS you are blessed with time on your hands and traffic free roads.
In many parts of the country ( especially where most of the possible customers probably live ) for every hour of hooning there will be tens of hours of doing normal speeds in traffic, going to Sainsburys, dropping the Mrs off at the shops, etc etc etc.
In all these circumstances, the car is not "special" enough to make a difference. Pretty soon you would realise that a 535d would do the job.
Once that realisation enters your head, it will never leave. And you won't have a nurburgring/private track/ awesomely grippy B road free of traffic cameras, to hoon about on to remind yourself of why you bought the car in the first place. Its awesome performance will not reveal itself often enough.
I am beginning to come round to the notion that " do it all" perfect supercars that can carry the kids and do 180mph are sadly wasted in this country, UNLESS you are blessed with time on your hands and traffic free roads.
It must be me; I absolutely hated the last M5, but rather like this one.
The E39 was great. You could go fast or slowly, depending on your mood. It was perfectly happy to hustle along - really hustle - but it was always a gentleman's express. The E60, on the other hand, was a nasty little oik, with its athsmatic-until-you've-revved-the-arse-off-it engine and deeply horrible gearbox. Basically, a very expensive geezer-boy chariot.
The F10 is a return to the E39's values; effortlessly fast, discreet, smooth when you want it and chest-bangingly mad when you want that too. I loved it.
The E39 was great. You could go fast or slowly, depending on your mood. It was perfectly happy to hustle along - really hustle - but it was always a gentleman's express. The E60, on the other hand, was a nasty little oik, with its athsmatic-until-you've-revved-the-arse-off-it engine and deeply horrible gearbox. Basically, a very expensive geezer-boy chariot.
The F10 is a return to the E39's values; effortlessly fast, discreet, smooth when you want it and chest-bangingly mad when you want that too. I loved it.
toppstuff said:
The problem with this car is quite simple.
In many parts of the country ( especially where most of the possible customers probably live ) for every hour of hooning there will be tens of hours of doing normal speeds in traffic, going to Sainsburys, dropping the Mrs off at the shops, etc etc etc.
In all these circumstances, the car is not "special" enough to make a difference. Pretty soon you would realise that a 535d would do the job.
Once that realisation enters your head, it will never leave. And you won't have a nurburgring/private track/ awesomely grippy B road free of traffic cameras, to hoon about on to remind yourself of why you bought the car in the first place. Its awesome performance will not reveal itself often enough.
I am beginning to come round to the notion that " do it all" perfect supercars that can carry the kids and do 180mph are sadly wasted in this country, UNLESS you are blessed with time on your hands and traffic free roads.
If that was the case then nobody would ever buy an M5, or an AMG or RS6 etc but they do.. The 4 door saloon with supercar performance appeals to many people. In many parts of the country ( especially where most of the possible customers probably live ) for every hour of hooning there will be tens of hours of doing normal speeds in traffic, going to Sainsburys, dropping the Mrs off at the shops, etc etc etc.
In all these circumstances, the car is not "special" enough to make a difference. Pretty soon you would realise that a 535d would do the job.
Once that realisation enters your head, it will never leave. And you won't have a nurburgring/private track/ awesomely grippy B road free of traffic cameras, to hoon about on to remind yourself of why you bought the car in the first place. Its awesome performance will not reveal itself often enough.
I am beginning to come round to the notion that " do it all" perfect supercars that can carry the kids and do 180mph are sadly wasted in this country, UNLESS you are blessed with time on your hands and traffic free roads.
If you can afford one then why not? It's the same logic why the UK buys the most convertibles in Europe even though we get 10 days sunshine a year, the optimism that one day you will get to use it!
jnoiles said:
That was an awful read. The run on sentences, the random thoughts, the use of exclamation marks. It reads like it was written by a 15 year old English as a second language student. Piss poor excuse for journalism. You got given an M5 and told to go play with it in Wales. At least make an effort man.
I kind of agree with you. I found it difficult to read as it didnt flow. Had to read two of the paras again to make sense of them and not entirely sure I managed. otolith said:
bakerstreet said:
otolith said:
Even if the noise isn't actually coming from the engine, but is being synthesised and played through the car's speakers?
I dont mind manufacrures tweaking the actual exhaust, but I wouldn't like it generated by speakers in the car. I presume the technology is all ready out there to do that. 
b
ks, gave it a '5' as well, instant zero if I'd realised that's what they meant by fake noise... how hard can it be to fit a decent exhaust to give a bit of a rasp or what have you? 
I don't particularly care about the fake exhuast note or the fact that it's a turbocharged M car, but I struggle to get the point of the M5 (and the E63/RS6 etc).
Like the other cars of its type, it's too big, too heavy and too fast for UK roads. But more than that, it only rewards when being driven fast, and fast in an M5 is equivalent to immediate disqualification. And if you take it on a track the brakes will disintegrate after 2 laps.
530d + 2nd hand GT3 >>> M5
Like the other cars of its type, it's too big, too heavy and too fast for UK roads. But more than that, it only rewards when being driven fast, and fast in an M5 is equivalent to immediate disqualification. And if you take it on a track the brakes will disintegrate after 2 laps.
530d + 2nd hand GT3 >>> M5
Reading most of the above posts, I am wondering, how many of you have test driven the F10?
I have. Within 15 minutes I knew I had to have it.
At that stage I knew nothing of the 'piped in engine noise'
I did not notice it.
I have owned E39 M5, two E46 M3's, a E92 M3 and two E93 M3's.
The F10 is by far the fastest long range cruiser, I had it for a day and covered circa 200 miles in it.
I take delivery of mine on 1st March, next week, and cannot wait.
For all that are so negative, you will buy one of these several years down the road, it is a natural progression from the E39, E60 etc. I am guessing a lot of posts are from people who, dare I say it, could not afford one, indeed I cannot really but what the hell.
I have. Within 15 minutes I knew I had to have it.
At that stage I knew nothing of the 'piped in engine noise'
I did not notice it.
I have owned E39 M5, two E46 M3's, a E92 M3 and two E93 M3's.
The F10 is by far the fastest long range cruiser, I had it for a day and covered circa 200 miles in it.
I take delivery of mine on 1st March, next week, and cannot wait.
For all that are so negative, you will buy one of these several years down the road, it is a natural progression from the E39, E60 etc. I am guessing a lot of posts are from people who, dare I say it, could not afford one, indeed I cannot really but what the hell.
60RK said:
Reading most of the above posts, I am wondering, how many of you have test driven the F10?
I have. Within 15 minutes I knew I had to have it.
At that stage I knew nothing of the 'piped in engine noise'
I did not notice it.
I have owned E39 M5, two E46 M3's, a E92 M3 and two E93 M3's.
The F10 is by far the fastest long range cruiser, I had it for a day and covered circa 200 miles in it.
I take delivery of mine on 1st March, next week, and cannot wait.
For all that are so negative, you will buy one of these several years down the road, it is a natural progression from the E39, E60 etc. I am guessing a lot of posts are from people who, dare I say it, could not afford one, indeed I cannot really but what the hell.
i couldnt care if it lapped the ring in 6 mins and you got a handjob from kelly brook every time you started it they can stick it up where the sun doesn't shine with there pathetic fake engine noise, treat me like a mug I think not ...I have. Within 15 minutes I knew I had to have it.
At that stage I knew nothing of the 'piped in engine noise'
I did not notice it.
I have owned E39 M5, two E46 M3's, a E92 M3 and two E93 M3's.
The F10 is by far the fastest long range cruiser, I had it for a day and covered circa 200 miles in it.
I take delivery of mine on 1st March, next week, and cannot wait.
For all that are so negative, you will buy one of these several years down the road, it is a natural progression from the E39, E60 etc. I am guessing a lot of posts are from people who, dare I say it, could not afford one, indeed I cannot really but what the hell.
Think this M5 looks brilliant, reminds me of the E39 M5, which looked like a normal 5 series until you saw the 4 exhausts at the back, the E60 was a bit shouty and in your face, but I liked that too.
After 3-5 years, the same "purists" who said stuff such as 'BMW ruined it with by putting a V8', or 'turbo is not the M way' etc will love it.
After 3-5 years, the same "purists" who said stuff such as 'BMW ruined it with by putting a V8', or 'turbo is not the M way' etc will love it.
Deranged Granny said:
kambites said:
There have been third party parts that do it for years, but as far as I know BMW are the first to do it OEM.
At the very least, SEAT came before them:http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=935...
I don't mind when engine sound is amplified to the passenger compartment through tubes or whatnot, because that is still the sound of the engine. But playing it through the speakers? A step over the line IMO. I would never buy a car that did that. Not a SEAT. Not an F10 M5. Not a Porsche 991.
caine100 said:
People are always going to complain about everything but at the end of the day the M5 is still the benchmark in it's class. At least until Jaguar launch the XFR-S 
Agree if Jaguar can bring a lighter 4 door performance saloon to the market in the guise of an XFR-S, it will be a big advantage to them and make for a great Gentleman's hooligan car. The launch of the heavyweight power saloons has gone on long enough. Come on trim the fat!Regards,
Mr. CC.
will261058 said:
I kind of agree with you. I found it difficult to read as it didnt flow. Had to read two of the paras again to make sense of them and not entirely sure I managed.
Totally agree. Seemed like a random collection of words that never really got anywhere - other than a half-arsed whinge about size.Drove one this past weekend and it was quite simply epic. Yes it's a touch bigger than would be utterly ideal, but that really is the only niggle you can level at it.
It moves the game on a huge amount in my eyes. Supremely refined and comfortable when you need it to be, potential mid-twenties MPG all day long and the ability to snap your neck with one pull of the paddle...supremely talented Q-Car. AMG and Audi will have their work cut out to match it.
Believe the hype.
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