Can you go back to naturally aspirated from turbo ownership?
Discussion
I had NA cars for a long time, culminating in the Exige. Then when I wanted an old shed to stop me putting so many miles on the Lotus I bought a '99 Impreza, just a turbo, nothing special. But my god, the acceleration felt just as quick (if not quicker) than the Exige. I'm quite sure it was slower, it's just that the torque gave you more of the accelerative feel.
Now I'm not a massive fan of turbo'd cars, I much prefer something like the inline six in an older BMW. I currently have a Genesis Coupe which has decent torque (220-ish) from it's 2.0T engine. It's not actually that quick to 60 but feels pretty good. Thing is, I'm worried the next NA car I buy which should be an upgrade (faster to 60 and more expensive) will actually feel slower in comparison!
Any idea how much more power or torque you need to step up to from a turbo car to an NA one that would feel more powerful? I'm interested to hear from others who have done the same. I don't want to be disappointed with a new car.
And much as I like the new BMW's nothing beats the old inline 6 IMHO.
Now I'm not a massive fan of turbo'd cars, I much prefer something like the inline six in an older BMW. I currently have a Genesis Coupe which has decent torque (220-ish) from it's 2.0T engine. It's not actually that quick to 60 but feels pretty good. Thing is, I'm worried the next NA car I buy which should be an upgrade (faster to 60 and more expensive) will actually feel slower in comparison!
Any idea how much more power or torque you need to step up to from a turbo car to an NA one that would feel more powerful? I'm interested to hear from others who have done the same. I don't want to be disappointed with a new car.
And much as I like the new BMW's nothing beats the old inline 6 IMHO.
I went from turbo diesels to a n/a petrol. The n/a petrol obviously feels quite different. The turbo cars do make you feel like you are being pushed back into your seat.
However, since I've learned to drive my n/a car properly (use the gears and the revs better) I'm noticing less of a difference. I've also noticed that even though a turbo diesel gives you a few thousand revs of seat pressing, you have to change gear more. So, overall, there isn't actually much difference. It just feels different.
I suppose it would be like a squirty session with Dawn French compared to a squirty session with Scarlet Johansson. They both do the same thing, just feel different.
HTH.
However, since I've learned to drive my n/a car properly (use the gears and the revs better) I'm noticing less of a difference. I've also noticed that even though a turbo diesel gives you a few thousand revs of seat pressing, you have to change gear more. So, overall, there isn't actually much difference. It just feels different.
I suppose it would be like a squirty session with Dawn French compared to a squirty session with Scarlet Johansson. They both do the same thing, just feel different.
HTH.I went from a lightly modded (260-270bhp) Fiat coupe 20vt to a Honda s2000. I do miss the torque and the feeling of having a quick/fast car. The Fiat felt a lot faster, especially when not really going fot it. With the coupe you could just potter around a bit and always knew you just had to floor the throttle to get that shove in the back and go. The Honda engine feels much more like any 2 liter 4 pot petrol out there and isn't very impressive most of the time.
But...when driving for fun and actually using the full revs a good n/a angine will have a much better throttle respone, is more lineair in it's power delivery and will keep going strong till the redline (most turbo'd cars have a great midrange, but power starts to drop off at higher revs).
Most n/a 6 cylinders are actually so smooth that they never feel that fast, I guess they lack a certain rawness.
But...when driving for fun and actually using the full revs a good n/a angine will have a much better throttle respone, is more lineair in it's power delivery and will keep going strong till the redline (most turbo'd cars have a great midrange, but power starts to drop off at higher revs).
Most n/a 6 cylinders are actually so smooth that they never feel that fast, I guess they lack a certain rawness.
You can. I'm driving an Impreza GX Sport AWD now, after having had a 240bhp MR2 Turbo! I sold the MR2 and circumstances saw me buying the Impreza off my dad. It was undoubtedly a huge shock going from the thunderous feeling of power and acceleration in the MR2 to the 124bhp Impreza.
Mind you, they have strengths in different areas. In the MR2 you would be balanced through corners on the throttle, waiting to get to the next straight to open the taps. In the Impreza you can really attack the corners and your lines will be better for it. Do I feel as if I am having less fun now, having traded my fast mid-engined sports car for the N/A AWD Impreza? No, not really. The Impreza needs to be worked for it's power and rewards you for holding onto momentum, a task made easier by the superb Symmetrical AWD.
Spend a couple of days getting over the shock of not having a turbo and you'll be fine. Take your N/A down a road and revel in the linearity of the power delivery and you'll be even happier! Sometimes slightly less is slightly more.
Mind you, they have strengths in different areas. In the MR2 you would be balanced through corners on the throttle, waiting to get to the next straight to open the taps. In the Impreza you can really attack the corners and your lines will be better for it. Do I feel as if I am having less fun now, having traded my fast mid-engined sports car for the N/A AWD Impreza? No, not really. The Impreza needs to be worked for it's power and rewards you for holding onto momentum, a task made easier by the superb Symmetrical AWD.
Spend a couple of days getting over the shock of not having a turbo and you'll be fine. Take your N/A down a road and revel in the linearity of the power delivery and you'll be even happier! Sometimes slightly less is slightly more.
Baryonyx said:
You can. I'm driving an Impreza GX Sport AWD now, after having had a 240bhp MR2 Turbo! I sold the MR2 and circumstances saw me buying the Impreza off my dad. It was undoubtedly a huge shock going from the thunderous feeling of power and acceleration in the MR2 to the 124bhp Impreza.
Mind you, they have strengths in different areas. In the MR2 you would be balanced through corners on the throttle, waiting to get to the next straight to open the taps. In the Impreza you can really attack the corners and your lines will be better for it. Do I feel as if I am having less fun now, having traded my fast mid-engined sports car for the N/A AWD Impreza? No, not really. The Impreza needs to be worked for it's power and rewards you for holding onto momentum, a task made easier by the superb Symmetrical AWD.
Spend a couple of days getting over the shock of not having a turbo and you'll be fine. Take your N/A down a road and revel in the linearity of the power delivery and you'll be even happier! Sometimes slightly less is slightly more.
Out of curiousity have you ever driven a turbo Impreza?Mind you, they have strengths in different areas. In the MR2 you would be balanced through corners on the throttle, waiting to get to the next straight to open the taps. In the Impreza you can really attack the corners and your lines will be better for it. Do I feel as if I am having less fun now, having traded my fast mid-engined sports car for the N/A AWD Impreza? No, not really. The Impreza needs to be worked for it's power and rewards you for holding onto momentum, a task made easier by the superb Symmetrical AWD.
Spend a couple of days getting over the shock of not having a turbo and you'll be fine. Take your N/A down a road and revel in the linearity of the power delivery and you'll be even happier! Sometimes slightly less is slightly more.
The family friend that I bought my Evo IX from had an Evo VIII FQ330 before it, I drove it back to the chap's house the morning after an evening at my parents with my dad in convoy to take me back in his 550.
A highly scientific squirt up a slip road revealed the 550 to be much, much quicker than the Evo, but I jumped in the 550 to drive it back and found that the Evo still felt much quicker. Must be the way the power builds with a Turbo that makes it feel so fast.
Having said that, my Evo IX didn't just feel very fast, it was very fast, but I've not had a problem going back to a fast n/a car, although I do miss the Evo as an all round car.
A highly scientific squirt up a slip road revealed the 550 to be much, much quicker than the Evo, but I jumped in the 550 to drive it back and found that the Evo still felt much quicker. Must be the way the power builds with a Turbo that makes it feel so fast.
Having said that, my Evo IX didn't just feel very fast, it was very fast, but I've not had a problem going back to a fast n/a car, although I do miss the Evo as an all round car.
KaraK said:
Out of curiousity have you ever driven a turbo Impreza?
Yes. Most recently a 2007 2.5 WRX, which I have to say was not the best turbo Impreza I've ever driven. Of the AWD rally reps though the best of the bunch I've found so far has been a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII GSR. but the Impreza was to hand and saved me from losing cash on cancelling the policy of insurance I had just bought for an Audi TT that turned out to be a bit of a flub. I was considering Lancer Evolutions and Imprezas at the time (RB5s/Series McRaes/any Lancer Evolution) but the GX was handy and I was doing my dad a favour by buying it off him (and I suppose I owe him a few). dave stew said:
I'm a big fan of turbo engines. Power when on boost, reasonably economical when off boost.
I also prefer torque to shove you up the road; I'm no fan of VTEC style screamers for road cars.
I'm the opposite of this. I prefer NA engines although I'd have the 335i as it doesn't feel turbo charged. I'm not a fan of the nothing/everything power delivery of some of the older turbo cars (like the Saphire Cosworth I drove) but to be fair, I've not driven many newer petrol turbo cars. I also prefer torque to shove you up the road; I'm no fan of VTEC style screamers for road cars.
I had a VTEC and I loved it. I prefer to drop a cog and rev my way to driving pleasure than an instant surge of torque. A good dollop of both is best though!
Different strokes for different folks.
Going back a few years, I had a JDM Impreza WRX followed by a Version 7 JDM STi which I traded in for an E39 M5.
When I test drove the M5, I thought it was a bit slow - until I checked the speedo, thinking I was doing 70 and was actually doing, well, rather more than that.
The Impreza had a noisy backbox and BOV which made it tremendous fun but had obviously affected my perception of speed. The BMW was probably similarly quick in real terms but always seemed to be slower and more sedate (at least until I had the rearmost silencers removed and it SOUNDED like a large capacity V8 should sound)
I do miss that M5...
When I test drove the M5, I thought it was a bit slow - until I checked the speedo, thinking I was doing 70 and was actually doing, well, rather more than that.
The Impreza had a noisy backbox and BOV which made it tremendous fun but had obviously affected my perception of speed. The BMW was probably similarly quick in real terms but always seemed to be slower and more sedate (at least until I had the rearmost silencers removed and it SOUNDED like a large capacity V8 should sound)
I do miss that M5...
I went from a VXR220 to a 350Z, which was a massive step in terms of induction, weight and noise. Initially the Zed felt a lot slower, but over time I learnt how to rag the balls off it to eke out the most it could give, and in the end I wasn't that far off the kind of pace I used to make in the VXR. Having a nice linear NA throttle response meant I was far quicker in the corners as I had more confidence to get on the power earlier.
I do enjoy the odd blat in the wife's 300bhp blobeye STi on occasion, and it makes my own 911 feel slow in comparison until I look at the speedo in the Beetle and realise just what kind of pace I'm actually doing...
I do enjoy the odd blat in the wife's 300bhp blobeye STi on occasion, and it makes my own 911 feel slow in comparison until I look at the speedo in the Beetle and realise just what kind of pace I'm actually doing...
The OP's question's got me thinking. The last 10 cars I have bought have all been turbocharged (6 x petrol & 4 x diesel), stretching back over an 18 year period. This wasn't a conscious decision on my part. I didn't even modify them in any way, so it's not as if I was just after big power, but it would seem that there's something about turbo cars that has always appealed to me.
Of course, one turbocharger isn't really enough!
Of course, one turbocharger isn't really enough!
Baryonyx said:
KaraK said:
Out of curiousity have you ever driven a turbo Impreza?
Yes. Most recently a 2007 2.5 WRX, which I have to say was not the best turbo Impreza I've ever driven. Of the AWD rally reps though the best of the bunch I've found so far has been a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII GSR. but the Impreza was to hand and saved me from losing cash on cancelling the policy of insurance I had just bought for an Audi TT that turned out to be a bit of a flub. I was considering Lancer Evolutions and Imprezas at the time (RB5s/Series McRaes/any Lancer Evolution) but the GX was handy and I was doing my dad a favour by buying it off him (and I suppose I owe him a few). 
I've only driven one N/A Impreza and found that as you describe the power delivery was very linear if a little lacking - you certainly have to have a different to preservation of momentum. Once I got used to when to be in what gear I've always found it relatively effortless to keep the one's I've owned (all turbo) on boost and after that it all becomes about attacking your lines. I do worry that I've formed bad habits with the Imprezas (mid-corner downshifts
) and one of these days I'll be in something completely different and it'll bite me in the ass Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff