RE: Spotted: 1965 Lotus Seven

[mickrick]

MX7 said:

mickrick said:

Notshortnottall said:

Here's ours:



Owned since the 70's and was given a ground up restoration about 3 years ago.

Shortly for sale too.....;)

Oh Man! Would I like that in my garage! Who re-panelled it?

I'd put it in the front room.

You're quite right! What was I thinking!

[MX7]

mickrick said:

You're quite right! What was I thinking!

[Notshortnottall]

mickrick said:

Oh Man! Would I like that in my garage! Who re-panelled it?

A chap called Mike Brotherwood. Well known in Lotus circles and did an excellent job.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Stew2000 said:

The first thing that came to my mind was this: http://youtu.be/14eUKogPF7s
I feel old now.

Off Topic, that seems a very long intro compared to todays tv series, these days there would have been two sets of adverts in that intro!!!

Back on topic, £35,000, 100bhp & 25MPG

Could do alot better for that cash!!!

[MX7]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Back on topic, £35,000, 100bhp & 25MPG

Could do alot better for that cash!!!

Philistine!

[RichB]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Stew2000 said:

The first thing that came to my mind was this: http://youtu.be/14eUKogPF7s
I feel old now.

Off Topic, that seems a very long intro compared to todays tv series, these days there would have been two sets of adverts in that intro!(

Off topic - I used to park in that car park every day back in the early 80s - I used to pretend I was Patrick McGoohan as I drove out to go home

[jonnylayze]

Pat H said:

Sam_68 said:

The Midget-based S1 replicas came after the Eleven, but before the Ford-based 'pre-litigation' SE (Seven S3 replica)?

Yep.

The exterior panels on the pre-lit Westfield Seven SE were entirely made of fibreglass and it was completely Ford based, if I recall correctly.

But there was also a "missing link" between the S1 replicas and the Seven SE.

I bought my Westfield in 1985 and it was one of very few ally bodied cars that was jigged for a Marina axle, Crossflow engine and Spitfire hubs.

There was still a lot of Midget in the car. All the cooling, wiring, handbrake, etc etc.

As it retained the alloy panels of the early Westfields it looked very similar indeed to a S3 Lotus/Caterham Seven.

It was a well made car and the chassis coating and the quality of the fibreglass was definitely superior to the 1977 Caterham that I bought a few years ago.

The Westfield also retained the lower bonnet line and nose cone of the Lotus Seven S3, rather than the taller Caterham modification.

The twin trailing arms and Panhard rod rear end was also a more durable arrangement than Chapman's "A" frame.

I entirely understand why Graham Nearn had to take Chris Smith to court, but those early Westfield Sevens and Elevens, really were lovely replicas. You only need to look at the prices that Westfield Elevens command to see how well they are regarded by Lotus enthusiasts.

Given the prices that early Lotus Sevens are now (properly) commanding, there is surely a market for a sympathetic replica of the early Seven that doesn't piss all over Caterham's chips.

Here's my 1985 Westfield.

Sorry, I had meant the first Westfield 7 was an S1. I too had an aluminium bodied pre-SE 'S3' Westfield 7 and it was very difficult ot tell it from a Lotus - it looked more like a Lotus than a Caterham..... (ducks for cover)!! Quite a rare car I think.

[Chilliman]

Even though its now over 40 years ago, I can still remember nearly every nut and bolt on my 7. I rebuilt the engine in my bedroom, which my mother wasn't really impressed with. At the time, there was nothing more important in my life than that car, and the experiences we shared will stay with me till my my time is up. Sad but true

[Pat H]

I had my '77 Caterham repanelled at Arch Motors and they did a lovely job.

They also engineered in a long cockpit conversion and lowered floors so that I could actually fit in the thing.

It was a very sad day indeed when I had to choose between the Seven and a new roof for the house.

[mickrick]

Notshortnottall said:

mickrick said:

Oh Man! Would I like that in my garage! Who re-panelled it?

A chap called Mike Brotherwood. Well known in Lotus circles and did an excellent job.

From what I can see, he has, hence my asking.
It's heart warming to know there are quite a few Guys doing this. I thought it was a dying art, but after searching myself for some one to do it on my own car, I have since found quite a few fellows making a living from just that.

Pat H, I remember seeing your car on a thread a while back. Really sorry she had to go.
I hope she's gone to someone worthy.

[PaulMoor]

Pat H said:

I had my '77 Caterham repanelled at Arch Motors and they did a lovely job.

They also engineered in a long cockpit conversion and lowered floors so that I could actually fit in the thing.

It was a very sad day indeed when I had to choose between the Seven and a new roof for the house.

Ye, but at least you only regret chooseing the Seven when it rains

[Fury1630]

Sam_68 said:

Sylvas take it a step further by offsetting the engine toward the passenger side, ........ The downside is that the transmission tunnel is also slightly offset, making the passenger seat well narrower - female passengers with wide hips/fat arses sometimes struggle to fit in.

As the owner of a Fury I can assure you this is NOT a downside, it is in fact a very good thing.

[peter pan]

The engine in a Caterham is behind the front axle line, so it could possibly be described as a front mid engined car.

[peter pan]

With the Caterham posting a time of 1 min 17.3 seconds on the Top Gear test track, with only a few supercars faster, it seems remarkable that a design which started life chalked out on a garage floor, can still beat cars costing huge amounts of cash more all these years later. The chassis design has been imptoved over the years as has the engine and drivetrain etc, but to have a car which can be built in someones garage, and uses largely off the shelf parts but which can still out perform all but a few supercars, seems quite remarkable.

[peter pan]

Lotus 7 the only sportscar to race in a Grand Prix (and it didnt even come last!)

[peter pan]

Lotus 7 the only sports car which was banned from racing (because it was too fast!)

[RichB]

doogz said:

peter pan said:

Lotus 7 the only sports car which was banned from racing (because it was too fast!)

Skyline, in Oz Supercars in the early 90's.

TVR 450SEAC also banned in late 80s

[Pat H]

peter pan said:

Lotus 7 the only sports car which was banned from racing (because it was too fast!)

It remains the same today.

I tried to register my 1977 S3 Caterham Seven for the HSCC 1970s Historic Roadsports Championship.

They won't let 1970s Caterhams play, although they do admit S4 Lotus Sevens.

It seems a little absurd, as they admit Porsche 928s, Esprits and Ferrari 308s.

Speaks volumes about the Seven.

[Sam_68]

peter pan said:

Lotus 7 the only sports car which was banned from racing (because it was too fast!)

This is a myth often regurgitated by Caterham fanboys.

They haven't been banned from racing: only from racing in certain production sports car classes where they had an unfair advantage because of their ultra-basic construction and relatively light weight. Even then they are not banned specifically (ie. you won't find anywhere in the rulebook that says 'open to all two seater sports cars of less than 2 litres engine capacity except for Caterham Sevens), merely that the rules have been framed in such a way as to exclude cars of this type.

The wording on the HSCC 70's Road Sports regs. (since Pat refers to this series), for example, is that the series is open to: 'all genuine production sports and GT cars built and road-registered between 1/1/70 and 31/12/79. Other cars may be eligible subject to proof of series production in period. Excluded from this Championship are all light weight, high performance or competition versions, together with any one-off specials'.

If I wanted to race a Jeffrey J4, or a Dutton, or any other kit car that was supplied for home completion in the Road Sports category, it would be just as ineligible.

There's nothing to stop you racing a Caterham against other kit cars in the 750 Motor Club Kit Car championship, should you so wish (indeed the rules specifically account for them), and there are several other series/classes where they are eligible for competition against other marques

[Pat H]

Sam_68 said:

The wording on the HSCC 70's Road Sports regs. (since Pat refers to this series), for example, is that the series is open to: 'all genuine production sports and GT cars built and road-registered between 1/1/70 and 31/12/79. Other cars may be eligible subject to proof of series production in period. Excluded from this Championship are all light weight, high performance or competition versions, together with any one-off specials'.

If I wanted to race a Jeffrey J4, or a Dutton, or any other kit car that was supplied for home completion in the Road Sports category, it would be just as ineligible.

Yep, but if you turned up with a S4 Seven, you would be allowed to play. And last year there was at least one S4 Seven on the grid.

I'm not seeking to have a pop at the HSCC, but there is more than a little inconsistency here.

Is it really being argued that the S4 Seven was a true production sportscar and that the S3 Caterham was not?

After all, they were both available as kits. As, of course, were many Elans.

And I am not preaching this as some prejudiced Caterham fan boy. To be honest, any Seven would get its arse whipped in the 1970s Historic Roadsports Championship, so it seems a shame that they aren't allowed in.

As the (then) owner of a 1970s Caterham which was excluded, I suppose that my opinion is hardly objective.

But such petty rules merely perpetuate the myth that a Caterham Seven is in some way invincible. The reality is that a well prepared Europa or Elan would have the edge over a contemporary Seven, except perhaps on the shortest of circuits.