Porsche 928s - talk to me
Discussion
flatline84 said:
The Corvette is ......... ultimately more nervous and less settled at 100+..
We've got an autobahn says you're wrong. Corvette is rock steady up past the 928s modest top speed of 146 mph.928 is undoubtedly an interesting car albeit very old at this point with the potential to deliver some truly scary bills if Porsche reliability slips an inch.
Ive driven a C4 and a 928, in the 928 I was doing 100 and it felt like i was doing 50..
The C4 rattled and It really felt like a 100 doing 100..I did like it, but it felt horribly cheap in every way after getting out of a 928, which was like a swiss vault in comparison.
Leather, carpets and velvet everywhere.
Reading Rennlist forums it seems like many american owners feel the same way, and those guys love corvettes.
Here is just one of the threads: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum/55... could be wrong though, opinions differ.
The C4 rattled and It really felt like a 100 doing 100..I did like it, but it felt horribly cheap in every way after getting out of a 928, which was like a swiss vault in comparison.
Leather, carpets and velvet everywhere.
Reading Rennlist forums it seems like many american owners feel the same way, and those guys love corvettes.
Here is just one of the threads: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum/55... could be wrong though, opinions differ.
Edited by flatline84 on Tuesday 13th March 11:10
5 USA said:
We've got an autobahn says you're wrong. Corvette is rock steady up past the 928s modest top speed of 146 mph.
928 is undoubtedly an interesting car albeit very old at this point with the potential to deliver some truly scary bills if Porsche reliability slips an inch.
146 mph? The later 928s do 170-180 mph no problem...928 is undoubtedly an interesting car albeit very old at this point with the potential to deliver some truly scary bills if Porsche reliability slips an inch.
flatline84 said:
Ive driven a C4 and a 928, in the 928 I was doing 100 and it felt like i was doing 50..
The C4 rattled and It really felt like a 100 doing 100..I did like it, but it felt horribly cheap in every way after getting out of a 928, which was like a swiss vault in comparison.
Leather, carpets and velvet everywhere.
Reading Rennlist forums it seems like many american owners feel the same way, and those guys love corvettes.
I agree the Corvette rattles a bit but it's part of it's rawness. I had no hesitation choosing the Corvette because of the "good points" you highlight - the feeling of being in a tomb, higher seating position, and I confess the burgundy interior of the red one I drove did the car no favours and I regret the "luxury" was all a bit "old man" for me.The C4 rattled and It really felt like a 100 doing 100..I did like it, but it felt horribly cheap in every way after getting out of a 928, which was like a swiss vault in comparison.
Leather, carpets and velvet everywhere.
Reading Rennlist forums it seems like many american owners feel the same way, and those guys love corvettes.
Sure the Corvette's windows sucked out at speed so you always had that wind in your hair experience but the big advantage of the Corvette for me was the targa which gave you a convertible at the twist of a few Allen bolts. Plus you had those space-age digital instruments and an exhaust that certainly in mine sounded like a squadron of Lancaster bombers flying at shoulder height behind you.
Now older, I imagine a later black 928GTS would be more attractive to my prevailing sensibilities.
I love the 928 but bougth a 944 as I thought the 928 was biting off more than I could chew, half the cylinders but I guess some of the experience is the same in terms of ownership, i.e. that they do feel heavy, my 944, after a modern takes more effort to drive, steering, even being assisted is as heavy as my unassisted Mk2 Golf. They are well made but they can, and do still rust, think the 944 is worse in this respect, I seem to have got off lightly with only a couple of minor spots that will be sorted out over the summer. The 928 is more complex and probably more of a challenge DIY wise than a 944.
These are old cars and has been said, if not used they get stiff like a creaky old Border Collie, they need use, mine has been significantly better than when I bought it as its in regular use after six months of being stored, things like windows get slow, gearchange stiff and just a general feeling of lack of use, imagine the 928 is similar. They feel "mechanical", they dont seem to isolate you like say a modern diesel, I can feel my engine turning over at the lights, they make noises and occasionally smells, coupled witht he heft in the controls they may not be the relaxing or easy drive you expect, but the 928 may be as I havent driven one, can only go on the 944 !
What I do know is that, though these cars are relatively cheap to buy, they are not cheap to run unless you are handy with the spanners, or at least prepared to have a go, the internet is fantastic, Porsche Club GB has a cosy corner for us 944 oddballs and the guys are so helpful and welcoming, mine was losing a bit of coolant from an elbow in the cooling system, I asked and a chap who seels spares is sending me the elbow and O ring I need for six quid.
These are not cars to buy on a five to ten grand budget if that is all you have and no affinity for the mechanical, sometimes you need to get a specialist to do stuff, it can get expensive but if you keep on top of the jobs you can do yourself it keeps the labour costs down.
Parts generally arent too bad, there is some commonality with other models but specific parts can get very expensive if rare and in demand, dont rule Porsche out as a source of spares, they are supposed to be very good, even for quite old stuff, but some stuff is getting very scarce.
These are old cars and has been said, if not used they get stiff like a creaky old Border Collie, they need use, mine has been significantly better than when I bought it as its in regular use after six months of being stored, things like windows get slow, gearchange stiff and just a general feeling of lack of use, imagine the 928 is similar. They feel "mechanical", they dont seem to isolate you like say a modern diesel, I can feel my engine turning over at the lights, they make noises and occasionally smells, coupled witht he heft in the controls they may not be the relaxing or easy drive you expect, but the 928 may be as I havent driven one, can only go on the 944 !
What I do know is that, though these cars are relatively cheap to buy, they are not cheap to run unless you are handy with the spanners, or at least prepared to have a go, the internet is fantastic, Porsche Club GB has a cosy corner for us 944 oddballs and the guys are so helpful and welcoming, mine was losing a bit of coolant from an elbow in the cooling system, I asked and a chap who seels spares is sending me the elbow and O ring I need for six quid.
These are not cars to buy on a five to ten grand budget if that is all you have and no affinity for the mechanical, sometimes you need to get a specialist to do stuff, it can get expensive but if you keep on top of the jobs you can do yourself it keeps the labour costs down.
Parts generally arent too bad, there is some commonality with other models but specific parts can get very expensive if rare and in demand, dont rule Porsche out as a source of spares, they are supposed to be very good, even for quite old stuff, but some stuff is getting very scarce.
J4CKO said:
I love the 928 but bougth a 944 as I thought the 928 was biting off more than I could chew, half the cylinders but I guess some of the experience is the same in terms of ownership, i.e. that they do feel heavy, my 944, after a modern takes more effort to drive, steering, even being assisted is as heavy as my unassisted Mk2 Golf.
Wise move Mark; I've done a reasonable amount of work on 928's, and there is a LOT more to them than there is to a 944. Once you work on one you realise that a 944 is really just an old Golf on steroids with a funny layout. A 928 is in a different league in terms of build quality, engineering and complexity! (And price, too ... ) I'd love one. Really, really love one. But the fuel bills make it a no-go for me. Sadly.
Oli.
Does the 928 offer much more over a good 944 S2 or 968, besides the engine?
I know the straight line performance of things like the GTS is in a different league, but it strikes me - given the relative value and potential costs of a good 928 and a good 944 - that you'd have to really want the extra four cylinders.
That said, they can be pretty potent. I remember going round the 'Ring in a 968 CS and a rather modified looking UK-registered 928 went past me like I was stuck in first.
I know the straight line performance of things like the GTS is in a different league, but it strikes me - given the relative value and potential costs of a good 928 and a good 944 - that you'd have to really want the extra four cylinders.
That said, they can be pretty potent. I remember going round the 'Ring in a 968 CS and a rather modified looking UK-registered 928 went past me like I was stuck in first.
From what I have gathered 928 are largely misunderstood beasts, burdened with long periods of standing still and thus an unjust reputation of being spaceship-expensive to run from owners having to play catch-up in maintenance. The cars are - according to owners - nothing like flimsy Ferraris. Once you fix something on a 928, it generally stays fixed..It has become an unloved 2 grand car and consequently owners who can afford to buy them, but cant be arsed with the upkeep..
The engines are bombproof, gearboxes similar and they are largely rustproof.
Low points include a moody AC system, seat electrics and an appetite for syncrorings on the manuals ( which is just a matter of replacing a bit more often).
To me this looks like peanuts..
The engines are bombproof, gearboxes similar and they are largely rustproof.
Low points include a moody AC system, seat electrics and an appetite for syncrorings on the manuals ( which is just a matter of replacing a bit more often).
To me this looks like peanuts..
Edited by flatline84 on Tuesday 13th March 12:13
Chris71 said:
Does the 928 offer much more over a good 944 S2 or 968, besides the engine?
I know the straight line performance of things like the GTS is in a different league, but it strikes me - given the relative value and potential costs of a good 928 and a good 944 - that you'd have to really want the extra four cylinders.
That said, they can be pretty potent. I remember going round the 'Ring in a 968 CS and a rather modified looking UK-registered 928 went past me like I was stuck in first.
It offers something else in the same way a Ferrari 550 offers something else over a 355. Completely different cars..I know the straight line performance of things like the GTS is in a different league, but it strikes me - given the relative value and potential costs of a good 928 and a good 944 - that you'd have to really want the extra four cylinders.
That said, they can be pretty potent. I remember going round the 'Ring in a 968 CS and a rather modified looking UK-registered 928 went past me like I was stuck in first.
928 is a continent-muncher and supremely comfortable compared to a 944/968. They also sound much better and have a much more characterful engine.
For track work and lower running costs a 968 would be more sensible. For everything else the 928 just seems superior to me. Also built to a higher standard.
flatline84 said:
Chris71 said:
Does the 928 offer much more over a good 944 S2 or 968, besides the engine?
I know the straight line performance of things like the GTS is in a different league, but it strikes me - given the relative value and potential costs of a good 928 and a good 944 - that you'd have to really want the extra four cylinders.
That said, they can be pretty potent. I remember going round the 'Ring in a 968 CS and a rather modified looking UK-registered 928 went past me like I was stuck in first.
It offers something else in the same way a Ferrari 550 offers something else over a 355. Completely different cars...I know the straight line performance of things like the GTS is in a different league, but it strikes me - given the relative value and potential costs of a good 928 and a good 944 - that you'd have to really want the extra four cylinders.
That said, they can be pretty potent. I remember going round the 'Ring in a 968 CS and a rather modified looking UK-registered 928 went past me like I was stuck in first.
I don't doubt the 928 offers a lot more if you have to be in Nice by dinner time. Also, given how monumentally dull the 944/968 engine is to listen to, the 928's V8 can only be a significant step up. But I think a lot of people - rightly or wrongly - are drawn to the idea of a practical, classic Porsche GT rather than the specific model.
A 968 or even a good 944 S2 is already a pretty comfortable, refined cruiser - it's not as if we're comparing it to a Caterham - so I'd imagine their lower costs and greater agility would appeal to more people than the 928's improved quality and refinement. Either way, I don't think it's unrealistic that people would be considering the relative merits of both cars.
None of them are that fast in the scheme of things these days, 320D would probably give my S2 a run for its money and a 335D would probably have enough pace to worry most 928's, so really if you are after ultimate pace for not a lot of money avoid like the plaugue. I think you need to be a certain type and really want an old school Porsche, everyone assumes you cant afford a 911 anyway. Think the 928 has an appeal all of its own, it has something that the 911 doesnt (and vice versa), the 911 wasnt in Weird Science or Risky Business.
A 928 is a less obvious choice and dare I say it probably a better car than the 911 of the time in a lot of ways, it was a newer design, designed to replace the 911 and it didnt have an air cooled engine slung somewhere out behind it, I think Porsche have done what Kelloggs did with Coco Pops and turned a disadvantage into a selling point, I used to think Coco Pops made the mile look like poo, apparently it "turns the milk choclately", the 911 had a rear engine due to the Beetle, which had one for packaging and cooling reasons, its now been made to work and not try to kill you if you dare enter a corner quickly and come off the throttle, back when the 928 came out the 911 was still a bit of a tail happy liability with still a distinct whiff of fast Beetle about it, ok most people love them but I can see why they tried to replace it.
A 928 is a less obvious choice and dare I say it probably a better car than the 911 of the time in a lot of ways, it was a newer design, designed to replace the 911 and it didnt have an air cooled engine slung somewhere out behind it, I think Porsche have done what Kelloggs did with Coco Pops and turned a disadvantage into a selling point, I used to think Coco Pops made the mile look like poo, apparently it "turns the milk choclately", the 911 had a rear engine due to the Beetle, which had one for packaging and cooling reasons, its now been made to work and not try to kill you if you dare enter a corner quickly and come off the throttle, back when the 928 came out the 911 was still a bit of a tail happy liability with still a distinct whiff of fast Beetle about it, ok most people love them but I can see why they tried to replace it.
You just have to read about the weimach ( is that spelled correctly lol) axle to realise how far ahead of its time it was.
As for pace.. are 928s really that slow?
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match1621-1622-930-2591....
50-75 mph in 2.5 seconds and 0-100 MPH in 11.9 seconds, is that really that slow nowadays? Seems pretty decent..
As for pace.. are 928s really that slow?
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match1621-1622-930-2591....
50-75 mph in 2.5 seconds and 0-100 MPH in 11.9 seconds, is that really that slow nowadays? Seems pretty decent..
Edited by flatline84 on Tuesday 13th March 12:58
Chris71 said:
I don't doubt the 928 offers a lot more if you have to be in Nice by dinner time. Also, given how monumentally dull the 944/968 engine is to listen to, the 928's V8 can only be a significant step up. But I think a lot of people - rightly or wrongly - are drawn to the idea of a practical, classic Porsche GT rather than the specific model.
A 968 or even a good 944 S2 is already a pretty comfortable, refined cruiser - it's not as if we're comparing it to a Caterham - so I'd imagine their lower costs and greater agility would appeal to more people than the 928's improved quality and refinement. Either way, I don't think it's unrealistic that people would be considering the relative merits of both cars.
The 928 is a lot, lot more car than the 944/68. Twice as much engine. A whole load more interior refinement. Much, much higher build quality. A very different prospect to drive. They are incomparably different cars; I'd suggest that a 944 has more in common with a Golf than with a 928. A 968 or even a good 944 S2 is already a pretty comfortable, refined cruiser - it's not as if we're comparing it to a Caterham - so I'd imagine their lower costs and greater agility would appeal to more people than the 928's improved quality and refinement. Either way, I don't think it's unrealistic that people would be considering the relative merits of both cars.
Oli.
flatline84 said:
Anyone out there with experience?
Only experience of trying buy, with a budget of 5k and another 2k for bits & bobs. Got the offical Porsche manuals, a very good book by David Hemmings and logged onto several sites. Sadly had no joy even after looking at five or six cars. So gave up after several months looking and purchased something else. Possibly, I was expecting too much for the money?, but I haven't been put off and will have a scout around for one again with a larger budget, maybe 7k (plus 2k). flatline84 said:
You just have to read about the weimach ( is that spelled correctly lol) axle to realise how far ahead of its time it was.
As for pace.. are 928s really that slow?
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match1621-1622-930-2591....
50-75 mph in 2.5 seconds and 0-100 MPH in 11.9 seconds, is that really that slow nowadays? Seems pretty decent..
That is the S4 which is an evolution, they arent slow by any standards but then they were, apart from the GTS the last variant, they started out with not much more power than a 944 S2, souple that with an auto box and old age, an early one could be fairly slow in modern company, warm-ish hot hatches have 237 bhp these days, and usually a turbo that can be remapped, so 270/280 bhp so a Focus ST will be quicker than an Early 928 and not be that far off an S4, but one is a FWD family hatchback with a body kit and the other is a ground up GT design. I know a lot of other cars on the road are faster than my S2 but that isnt what I bought it for, if I wanted the fastest thing for the leaast money I could have gone in other directions but that can be a fruitless exerciseAs for pace.. are 928s really that slow?
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match1621-1622-930-2591....
50-75 mph in 2.5 seconds and 0-100 MPH in 11.9 seconds, is that really that slow nowadays? Seems pretty decent..
Edited by flatline84 on Tuesday 13th March 12:58
Should be able to get a very tidy 928 for £10k, and run it relatively cheaply. These cars need to be used every day though, so it's not a lay up and leave machine.
If something big happens then yes, you will get a big bill, even from an indy. However that is true of most 30 year old cars, and 928s are better built than most.
They are due to become collectable very, very soon. The car storage place where I laid my AMG up for the winter had 3x 928s in storage (with a regular use programme). Owners patiently waiting for them to do the decent thing and start rocketing in value......
Great buy, if you get a good one.
If something big happens then yes, you will get a big bill, even from an indy. However that is true of most 30 year old cars, and 928s are better built than most.
They are due to become collectable very, very soon. The car storage place where I laid my AMG up for the winter had 3x 928s in storage (with a regular use programme). Owners patiently waiting for them to do the decent thing and start rocketing in value......
Great buy, if you get a good one.
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