Track car but also for weekend trips - RX8 or Clio 197/200?
Discussion
This is such a difficult decision!
Alright, so I'm in the market for a car in the next few months (hopefully before June/July) and I have been looking at something that is decently fast, not crazy to insure, and will be a great car to learn how to drive fast in. I live in London so I won't really be using my car during the week at all as taking the tube is much more efficient. However, I am dying to track the car to get better on the weekends and will likely also use it as a vehicle for weekend trips away throughout England when it is not tracking. To be honest, the car may see at most 1,500-3,000 miles per year.
I initially dreamt about a Honda S2000 but the insurance on that thing is far beyond ridiculous. After a lot of searching I came upon the Mazda RX-8 and Renault Clio 197/200 vehicles which seem to be pretty evenly matched except that one is RWD and one is FF. In addition, non-R3 RX-8's and Clio 197's can be found in great condition for 6,500 - 9,000 while R3 RX-8's and Clio 200's can be found for 9,000 - 13,500.
Each car has positives and negatives and gas mileage is not entirely important if the car is not being driven very often. Also, any maintenance should not be an issue as I'm pretty handy with a wrench under the hood of a car as I rebuilt my old 1986 3.8L Buick Grand National V6 Turbo (I am from the USA and this is one of the last muscle cars ever built - http://www.motortrend.com/classic/roadtests/1010_1... ) and am very generous in doing "spring cleanings" at least twice a year.
So which one would you go for? Which one can be made faster with mods? Not that either car would need any but you know how the bug bites you over time...I was all set on the RX-8 until I read about how quick the little Clio was.
Alright, so I'm in the market for a car in the next few months (hopefully before June/July) and I have been looking at something that is decently fast, not crazy to insure, and will be a great car to learn how to drive fast in. I live in London so I won't really be using my car during the week at all as taking the tube is much more efficient. However, I am dying to track the car to get better on the weekends and will likely also use it as a vehicle for weekend trips away throughout England when it is not tracking. To be honest, the car may see at most 1,500-3,000 miles per year.
I initially dreamt about a Honda S2000 but the insurance on that thing is far beyond ridiculous. After a lot of searching I came upon the Mazda RX-8 and Renault Clio 197/200 vehicles which seem to be pretty evenly matched except that one is RWD and one is FF. In addition, non-R3 RX-8's and Clio 197's can be found in great condition for 6,500 - 9,000 while R3 RX-8's and Clio 200's can be found for 9,000 - 13,500.
Each car has positives and negatives and gas mileage is not entirely important if the car is not being driven very often. Also, any maintenance should not be an issue as I'm pretty handy with a wrench under the hood of a car as I rebuilt my old 1986 3.8L Buick Grand National V6 Turbo (I am from the USA and this is one of the last muscle cars ever built - http://www.motortrend.com/classic/roadtests/1010_1... ) and am very generous in doing "spring cleanings" at least twice a year.
So which one would you go for? Which one can be made faster with mods? Not that either car would need any but you know how the bug bites you over time...I was all set on the RX-8 until I read about how quick the little Clio was.
Edited by cib24 on Thursday 15th March 12:01
Get yourself a 182 Cup for c3,500, strip it, take the remainder of your budget to K-TEC and say 'turn this cash in to mentalness, please'.
I think you'd have a lot more fun in the Clio, it's less likely to give you hassle, is more reliably tuneable and, IMO, a much more loveable car.
I think you'd have a lot more fun in the Clio, it's less likely to give you hassle, is more reliably tuneable and, IMO, a much more loveable car.
Edited by MrKipling43 on Thursday 15th March 12:05
Out of the two I'd go for an RX-8 purely for the RWD factor.
That said neither would be my choice for your budget - I'd probably buy an E36 328i, add some fancy suspension and lairy cams. Insurance on them isn't too mad, certainly much better than the M3.
That said neither would be my choice for your budget - I'd probably buy an E36 328i, add some fancy suspension and lairy cams. Insurance on them isn't too mad, certainly much better than the M3.
Edited by Krikkit on Thursday 15th March 12:06
Edited by Krikkit on Thursday 15th March 12:08
MrKipling43 said:
Get yourself a 182 Cup for c3,500, strip it, take the remainder of your budget to K-TEC and say 'turn this cash in to mentalness, please'.
I think you'd have a lot more fun in the Clio, it's less likely to give you hassle and, IMO, a much more loveable car.
I seriously thought about the 172 or 182 but I'm not too keen on how cheaply it is made. I have no doubt that around the track the thing is a boss but like I said the car will be used for weekend trips and such and I do have a girlfriend to think about trucking around on occassion as well. I saw the Top Gear review and have read about things like the steering wheel melting and this leads me to believe that the car really is a POS outside of the engine and handling capabilities. Apparently the Clio 197 and 200 are much much more refined...Perhaps I'm just being a bit anal though and should test drive one and see the build quality up close. My views could also be skewed by the fact that I just rented a Fiesta in the states and the car was so much nicer than any pocket rocket I had driven before but it seriously lacked any sort of grunt with that small 1.6 120ps motor.I think you'd have a lot more fun in the Clio, it's less likely to give you hassle and, IMO, a much more loveable car.
Krikkit said:
Out of the two I'd go for an RX-8 purely for the RWD factor.
That said neither would be my choice for your budget - I'd probably buy an E36 328i, strip it, cage it, and add some fancy suspension and lairy cams. Insurance on them isn't too mad, certainly much better than the M3.
This. Or if rear seats aren't required, MX5/MR2.That said neither would be my choice for your budget - I'd probably buy an E36 328i, strip it, cage it, and add some fancy suspension and lairy cams. Insurance on them isn't too mad, certainly much better than the M3.
I can highly recommend a Clio 200, I use mine everyday as well as weekend blasts. Even got a family holiday to Scotland carrying all the gear for an 8 month old. Yet to track it as normally use a circuit aka the Yorkshire Dales
Only thing, modding for more power isn't worth it, you'll spend thousands for small gains, but out of the packet they're great fun anyway.
When you go for a test drive make sure you take it over 5k revs to see why these cars are brilliant, just tootling round can give the impression they're not that special
Only thing, modding for more power isn't worth it, you'll spend thousands for small gains, but out of the packet they're great fun anyway.
When you go for a test drive make sure you take it over 5k revs to see why these cars are brilliant, just tootling round can give the impression they're not that special
cib24 said:
I seriously thought about the 172 or 182 but I'm not too keen on how cheaply it is made. I have no doubt that around the track the thing is a boss but like I said the car will be used for weekend trips and such and I do have a girlfriend to think about trucking around on occassion as well. I saw the Top Gear review and have read about things like the steering wheel melting and this leads me to believe that the car really is a POS outside of the engine and handling capabilities. Apparently the Clio 197 and 200 are much much more refined...Perhaps I'm just being a bit anal though and should test drive one and see the build quality up close. My views could also be skewed by the fact that I just rented a Fiesta in the states and the car was so much nicer than any pocket rocket I had driven before but it seriously lacked any sort of grunt with that small 1.6 120ps motor.
I think that is largely people that haven't owned one regurgitating Clarksonisms myself. Mine hasn't gone wrong at all, is perfectly comfortable for long trips (done 10 hours in a day and got out feeling fine), has cruise control, climate control and all the other toys you could want. The boot is good for a small hatch and it is generally very easy to live with, while at the same time being a massive giggle to hoon about in. I would heartily recommend one. ETA: You'll also see 35+mpg no matter how hard you drive it, whereas all reports about the RX8 suggest you'd be lucky to get half that. The Clio 197/200 also seems to be surprisingly poor on fuel by all the accounts I've read?
Edited by chris182 on Thursday 15th March 12:24
chris182 said:
I think that is largely people that haven't owned one regurgitating Clarksonisms myself. Mine hasn't gone wrong at all, is perfectly comfortable for long trips (done 10 hours in a day and got out feeling fine), has cruise control, climate control and all the other toys you could want. The boot is good for a small hatch and it is generally very easy to live with, while at the same time being a massive giggle to hoon about in. I would heartily recommend one.
ETA: You'll also see 35+mpg no matter how hard you drive it, whereas all reports about the RX8 suggest you'd be lucky to get half that. The Clio 197/200 also seems to be surprisingly poor on fuel by all the accounts I've read?
I can second all these things (I've got a 182 on an 04 with 75,000 on the clock).ETA: You'll also see 35+mpg no matter how hard you drive it, whereas all reports about the RX8 suggest you'd be lucky to get half that. The Clio 197/200 also seems to be surprisingly poor on fuel by all the accounts I've read?
Yes, it does have a melty steering wheel, but these can be re-trimmed and the bobbly seat material can be solved with ultra fine grade sandpaper. Build quality is very decent though - the only rattle mine has is the 'glass' on the dashboard and that's solved by a quick press inwards that sees it through the rest of the journey (at least!).
It's very comfy on long journeys, the seats are great and it's not too noisy (although mine isn't the Cup version so has more sound deadening).
I adore it.
Out of those two I'd have the RX-8. While the Clio is undoubtedly good its still a FF the RX-8 is a FR pretending its a MR.
If you're going to get an RX-8 and can afford it I'd go for the R3. Not appreciably better on fuel than the previous models but better handling and (possibly more importantly) has an extra oil injector port and totally different oil pump setup to the original. AFAIK none of the R3's have gone pop...
They do use oil but its hardly the end of the world to check it (I suspect the kind of people who grumble at them using oil also never check tyre pressures, coolant levels, brake fluid etc and would struggle to open a bonnet)
While 'normal' mpg is poor from what I've heard it doesn't change much on track. Only thing to beware of is that it'll use more oil when thrashed but then pretty much any car on track will use oil and you should be checking after every session.
If you're going to get an RX-8 and can afford it I'd go for the R3. Not appreciably better on fuel than the previous models but better handling and (possibly more importantly) has an extra oil injector port and totally different oil pump setup to the original. AFAIK none of the R3's have gone pop...
They do use oil but its hardly the end of the world to check it (I suspect the kind of people who grumble at them using oil also never check tyre pressures, coolant levels, brake fluid etc and would struggle to open a bonnet)
While 'normal' mpg is poor from what I've heard it doesn't change much on track. Only thing to beware of is that it'll use more oil when thrashed but then pretty much any car on track will use oil and you should be checking after every session.
cib24 said:
MrKipling43 said:
Get yourself a 182 Cup for c3,500, strip it, take the remainder of your budget to K-TEC and say 'turn this cash in to mentalness, please'.
I think you'd have a lot more fun in the Clio, it's less likely to give you hassle and, IMO, a much more loveable car.
I seriously thought about the 172 or 182 but I'm not too keen on how cheaply it is made. I have no doubt that around the track the thing is a boss but like I said the car will be used for weekend trips and such and I do have a girlfriend to think about trucking around on occassion as well. I saw the Top Gear review and have read about things like the steering wheel melting and this leads me to believe that the car really is a POS outside of the engine and handling capabilities. Apparently the Clio 197 and 200 are much much more refined...Perhaps I'm just being a bit anal though and should test drive one and see the build quality up close. My views could also be skewed by the fact that I just rented a Fiesta in the states and the car was so much nicer than any pocket rocket I had driven before but it seriously lacked any sort of grunt with that small 1.6 120ps motor.I think you'd have a lot more fun in the Clio, it's less likely to give you hassle and, IMO, a much more loveable car.
Fastdruid said:
Out of those two I'd have the RX-8. While the Clio is undoubtedly good its still a FF the RX-8 is a FR pretending its a MR.
Not sure what you mean by this, really.Anyway, the Clio is a better car than the RX-8. Better to drive, better to run, more options regarding making it faster. If it's strictly between the two, it's got to be the Clio.
MrKipling43 said:
Fastdruid said:
Out of those two I'd have the RX-8. While the Clio is undoubtedly good its still a FF the RX-8 is a FR pretending its a MR.
Not sure what you mean by this, really.Polarbert said:
Fastdruid said:
still a FF
So?MrKipling43 said:
Anyway, the Clio is a better car than the RX-8. Better to drive
Really?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff