EML light and MOT
Discussion
Since we have the new rules in place for MOTs I have an engine warning light showing (EGR problem). I have replaced the egr valve and still have the light illuminated, resetting it will work for one engine run then illuminates the next time.
is this now an mot failure (and as thus i should mot it before April to get an advisory and a new 12 month ticket) or is the EML not covered by the new rules (i have seen no specific mention of the main engine management light).
is this now an mot failure (and as thus i should mot it before April to get an advisory and a new 12 month ticket) or is the EML not covered by the new rules (i have seen no specific mention of the main engine management light).
My reading of it (and some proper mechanics too) is that yes, from April you car will fail if it displays any warning lights once running.
That's not just engine warning lights either - it's ABS (covered already), traction control, stability control etc. - anything which isn't just "you need more washer fluid" (although having none of that is a failure, of course!!)
Seems slightly daft to me - if the car isn't emitting tonnes of pollution and the brakes are working, what exactly is the issue?
My last banger had an intermittant EWL which was actually the car telling me that a sensor was failing. Nothing wrong with the car as such, just a warning light to tell me that the warning light wouldn't be telling me anything about that particular aspect of the engine
Given that the sensor replacement was more than the car was worth - but the car ran perfectly anyway - it seems like this might be a plan to get yet more cars off the road and yet more people into yet more debt.
That's not just engine warning lights either - it's ABS (covered already), traction control, stability control etc. - anything which isn't just "you need more washer fluid" (although having none of that is a failure, of course!!)
Seems slightly daft to me - if the car isn't emitting tonnes of pollution and the brakes are working, what exactly is the issue?
My last banger had an intermittant EWL which was actually the car telling me that a sensor was failing. Nothing wrong with the car as such, just a warning light to tell me that the warning light wouldn't be telling me anything about that particular aspect of the engine
Given that the sensor replacement was more than the car was worth - but the car ran perfectly anyway - it seems like this might be a plan to get yet more cars off the road and yet more people into yet more debt.These new rules are ridiculous,
for example, most old 3 series BMW's have the air bag light on (common issue) but to repair items such as the passenger seat sensor can cost hundreds of pounds which no-one will spend on a car worth under 1000.
So what do you do? Scrap it for the sake of a dash warning light?
Yep, forcing people out of their cheap cars for the sake of some petty rule, and making their cars worthless over night will help the economy loads..............NOT!
I give up!
for example, most old 3 series BMW's have the air bag light on (common issue) but to repair items such as the passenger seat sensor can cost hundreds of pounds which no-one will spend on a car worth under 1000.
So what do you do? Scrap it for the sake of a dash warning light?
Yep, forcing people out of their cheap cars for the sake of some petty rule, and making their cars worthless over night will help the economy loads..............NOT!
I give up!
johnpeat said:
Seems slightly daft to me - if the car isn't emitting tonnes of pollution and the brakes are working, what exactly is the issue?
The MOT is primarily there to ensure that cars are safe and not emitting excessive pollution, seems to me that it's ridiculous that stability, airbag and engine lights have not been part of the test for so long.hora said:
If a car can suddenly cough and die when its run out of petrol (I've seen a few mid-lane on the motorway) then the same thinking can apply if a car isn't deemed to be kept in full working order. What if the EML comes on as the car has a serious engine issue leading to it cutting out at the wrong moments? Roundabouts, lights, mid-junctions etc leading to a surprised driver hitting the car?
On a various basic level- The warning lights are there to monitor mechanical and safety equipment condition, as said I don't know why they weren't part of the test earlier.
There are plenty of things which will bring up an engine management light which can be ignored. On a various basic level- The warning lights are there to monitor mechanical and safety equipment condition, as said I don't know why they weren't part of the test earlier.
My car currently has a fault with the throttle position sensor, apparently. There is no issue with it, I've done hundreds of miles and throttle response has been fine throughout. Why should that fail the MOT? Emissions are good, brakes, tyres etc are fine. Next MOT (luckily 12 months away) Im going to have to spend a load of money on it, or scrap an otherwise good car because of a single light on the dash. When the thing is only worth 500, how much do you spend?
hora said:
...but from the perspective of the MOT test system you'd then have to stock engine diagnostic equipment, know engine codes and be able to diagnose an issue at a MOT test.
Which would be impossible. The onus should be on the cars owner to present the car in mechanical/working condition not for the MOT tester to sift through the codes.
Diagnostic equipment costs about 30 for a code reader, which usually, (always?) comes with a complete list of codes anyway. I would be amazed if any garaged didnt already have a code reader, and the ones they will buy will be far more advanced than a basic one like mine.Which would be impossible. The onus should be on the cars owner to present the car in mechanical/working condition not for the MOT tester to sift through the codes.
You say the onus should be to present the car in working condition, well, just because there is a computer error or wiring problem doesnt affect the safety or working condition of the car.
Condi said:
Diagnostic equipment costs about 30 for a code reader, which usually, (always?) comes with a complete list of codes anyway. I would be amazed if any garaged didnt already have a code reader, and the ones they will buy will be far more advanced than a basic one like mine.
You say the onus should be to present the car in working condition, well, just because there is a computer error or wiring problem doesnt affect the safety or working condition of the car.
Does that 30 code reader read all codes from all manufacturers? I doubt it.You say the onus should be to present the car in working condition, well, just because there is a computer error or wiring problem doesnt affect the safety or working condition of the car.
Funnily enough, my Mondeo just passed its' MOT yesterday.
I had an EML light on due to me blanking the egr off (euro 4)
I had a fault code reader and just had faults showing for the EGR. Plugged it in and erased the codes outside the garage and the light went out. I normally get 50-100 miles before the light comes on again.
I had an EML light on due to me blanking the egr off (euro 4)
I had a fault code reader and just had faults showing for the EGR. Plugged it in and erased the codes outside the garage and the light went out. I normally get 50-100 miles before the light comes on again.
KevinA3DSG32 said:
Does that 30 code reader read all codes from all manufacturers? I doubt it.
As far as I know, yes. Its a universal standard. Some manufactures interpret it differently, but thats just a case of looking on a table or on the internet. The actual computer can read any make of car. A professional standard OBD reader will allow you to select the make of car and will bring up the actual fault, rather than just the fault code. Condi said:
hora said:
If a car can suddenly cough and die when its run out of petrol (I've seen a few mid-lane on the motorway) then the same thinking can apply if a car isn't deemed to be kept in full working order. What if the EML comes on as the car has a serious engine issue leading to it cutting out at the wrong moments? Roundabouts, lights, mid-junctions etc leading to a surprised driver hitting the car?
On a various basic level- The warning lights are there to monitor mechanical and safety equipment condition, as said I don't know why they weren't part of the test earlier.
There are plenty of things which will bring up an engine management light which can be ignored. On a various basic level- The warning lights are there to monitor mechanical and safety equipment condition, as said I don't know why they weren't part of the test earlier.
My car currently has a fault with the throttle position sensor, apparently. There is no issue with it, I've done hundreds of miles and throttle response has been fine throughout. Why should that fail the MOT? Emissions are good, brakes, tyres etc are fine. Next MOT (luckily 12 months away) Im going to have to spend a load of money on it, or scrap an otherwise good car because of a single light on the dash. When the thing is only worth 500, how much do you spend?
I envisage a nice little industry appearing selling auto-electricians time to "fix" these engine management issues.
Question for everyone - would it be illegal (or detectable at MOT time) to do this?
There seems to be a bit of confusion here. The MOT testers manual refers to a MIL, which stands for Malfunction Indicator Light. Currently the only MIL which is presently a fail is the the one for the ABS.
Failures are going to be introduced later on this year for other MILs, which will be:
Traction control
Airbag/SRS systems
Power steering and electronic steering locks
Tyre pressure monitoring systems only where it indicates a fault with the system, not if it just indicates low pressure in a tyre
The EML is just a MIL for the engine management system, it is presently not and is not (in the forseeable future) going to be a fail item. The exhaust emissions may be affected by it being on, but an emissions test has been part of the MOT for a while now.
Failures are going to be introduced later on this year for other MILs, which will be:
Traction control
Airbag/SRS systems
Power steering and electronic steering locks
Tyre pressure monitoring systems only where it indicates a fault with the system, not if it just indicates low pressure in a tyre
The EML is just a MIL for the engine management system, it is presently not and is not (in the forseeable future) going to be a fail item. The exhaust emissions may be affected by it being on, but an emissions test has been part of the MOT for a while now.
mcford said:
There seems to be a bit of confusion here. The MOT testers manual refers to a MIL, which stands for Malfunction Indicator Light. Currently the only MIL which is presently a fail is the the one for the ABS.
Failures are going to be introduced later on this year for other MILs, which will be:
Traction control
Airbag/SRS systems
Power steering and electronic steering locks
Tyre pressure monitoring systems only where it indicates a fault with the system, not if it just indicates low pressure in a tyre
The EML is just a MIL for the engine management system, it is presently not and is not (in the forseeable future) going to be a fail item. The exhaust emissions may be affected by it being on, but an emissions test has been part of the MOT for a while now.
thanks (and to previous posters) that was my understanding, it passed the emissions last year with the same fault so am hoping it will be fine this year.Failures are going to be introduced later on this year for other MILs, which will be:
Traction control
Airbag/SRS systems
Power steering and electronic steering locks
Tyre pressure monitoring systems only where it indicates a fault with the system, not if it just indicates low pressure in a tyre
The EML is just a MIL for the engine management system, it is presently not and is not (in the forseeable future) going to be a fail item. The exhaust emissions may be affected by it being on, but an emissions test has been part of the MOT for a while now.
Good reminder to get my shed through its test whilst airbag lights are still advisory (end of this month?)
Its good in a way, but a shame a lot of mechanically sound cars, many of which do limited miles on short journeys (mine carries muddy mountain bikes and allotment produce) will be forced off the road.
Its good in a way, but a shame a lot of mechanically sound cars, many of which do limited miles on short journeys (mine carries muddy mountain bikes and allotment produce) will be forced off the road.
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