RE: Liam Doran totals GT-R at the 'ring

[WCZ]

is it not at least semi-valid comment that with the both physical, experiential, literal and financial resources Nissan have re: the GTR they might be able to create a more complete/composed tuned GTR in relation to Lichfield?

Edited by WCZ on Wednesday 21st March 16:01

[Caractacus]

sw1000xg said:

Well as a FACT! A tunned 650bhp GTR will NEVER perform as good as a Nissan 650bhp GTR because they don't have the tech or resorces to do what Nissan can do!

1) Havent adjusted the chassis for the power,
2) Have not Added or tuned the aero, to work with 650bhp.
3) Tuned the suspension for EVERYDAY use.
4) Longivity driving.

Why do you think race cars crash? It's because of there setup i.e. LIKE IN THIS STORY.

All tuners do is IMPROVE on the car! Not adjust it i.e. 2009 GTR to the 2012 GTR look at the difference in performance BIG difference! Tuners CANNOT do that! Because they don't have the cash to spend millions on a new door handle (LOL)

THAT'S WHY dummy...

I love Litchfield I want a GTR tuned by them!

I get where you are coming from here...

It's either the carefree days of puberty or out of your arse.

Which one though?

[sootyrumble]

Skater12 said:

The Crack Fox said:

Skater12 said:

He's a pro Rallycross driver.
He's doing Pikes Peak in a stupidly powerful RS2000 this year.
He's an X-Games gold medalist in Rallycross.
He's the son of the Legend Pat Doran and grew up around motor racing.
Me thinks he's a little bit handy behind the wheel!

Well, assuming it wasn't a car failure of some kind, he f*cked up this time and was lucky no-one else was taken out with him.

If you read back through the thread, this was in response to someone saying he may have had a "lack of skill".
I was simply pointing out that i doubt he has skill lacking, but do agree, there may have been a temporary loss of control.
Even Senna crashed. Are we saying he lacked skill ???

Senna crashed in formula 1 conditions he crashed AGAIN arsing around on a track very different situations. If you look at Liams history he appears to have a penchant of overcommiting as there are alot of videos of cars hes written of along the way.
Playing devils advocate this is probably also why hes won all those rallycross etc. because he takes it right to the limit with a prediliction for overstepping it lol this probably comes from having all the money to just replace at a whim so the care factor isn't as much there.
Be interesting to see how he and father compares to the great father son team of the Rhys Millen at Pikes Peak.

[k-ink]

Skater12 said:

Even Senna crashed. Are we saying he lacked skill ???

I think Senna crashes were either on purpose (he would not concede a space) or due to a car failure (you can thank Williams Renault for killing him)

[Flawless Victory]

y2blade said:

Skater12 said:

y2blade said:

Riggers said:

Mubble said:

So his insurance won't pay out at all?

Damn, that's an expensive lack of skill.

Not sure a lack of skill is something you could accuse Liam of, given what he does as a day job...

... A surfeit of bravery, perhaps...

Lack of Skill Mubble do you even know who Liam Doran is????

Agreed.
He's a pro Rallycross driver.
He's doing Pikes Peak in a stupidly powerful RS2000 this year.
He's an X-Games gold medalist in Rallycross.
He's the son of the Legend Pat Doran and grew up around motor racing.

Me thinks he's a little bit handy behind the wheel!

Aye

But he still looked into his bag o' talent and found nothing there.

[Skater12]

k-ink said:

Skater12 said:

Even Senna crashed. Are we saying he lacked skill ???

I think Senna crashes were either on purpose (he would not concede a space) or due to a car failure (you can thank Williams Renault for killing him)

oooooh, slightly risque comment about williams there.

[Skater12]

Flawless Victory said:

y2blade said:

Skater12 said:

y2blade said:

Riggers said:

Mubble said:

So his insurance won't pay out at all?

Damn, that's an expensive lack of skill.

Not sure a lack of skill is something you could accuse Liam of, given what he does as a day job...

... A surfeit of bravery, perhaps...

Lack of Skill Mubble do you even know who Liam Doran is????

Agreed.
He's a pro Rallycross driver.
He's doing Pikes Peak in a stupidly powerful RS2000 this year.
He's an X-Games gold medalist in Rallycross.
He's the son of the Legend Pat Doran and grew up around motor racing.

Me thinks he's a little bit handy behind the wheel!

Aye

But he still looked into his bag o' talent and found nothing there.

I think his talent and the factors around the crash are like rock paper scissors.

Talent is beaten by Ego.

Ego is beaten by flying through the air.

Flying through the air is beaten by pilots licence.

Pilots licence is beaten by lack of wings on a car.

Making wingless car fly....... achieved by combination of 1% talent and 99% Ego.

[trevor brimson]

He might be handy behind the wheel but it didn't do him any good on this occassion.Learn the track before you try to go flat out,what a numpty.

[Dave_STI]

sw1000xg said:

Well as a FACT! A tunned 650bhp GTR will NEVER perform as good as a Nissan 650bhp GTR because they don't have the tech or resorces to do what Nissan can do!

1) Havent adjusted the chassis for the power,
2) Have not Added or tuned the aero, to work with 650bhp.
3) Tuned the suspension for EVERYDAY use.
4) Longivity driving.

Why do you think race cars crash? It's because of there setup i.e. LIKE IN THIS STORY.

All tuners do is IMPROVE on the car! Not adjust it i.e. 2009 GTR to the 2012 GTR look at the difference in performance BIG difference! Tuners CANNOT do that! Because they don't have the cash to spend millions on a new door handle (LOL)

THAT'S WHY dummy...

I love Litchfield I want a GTR tuned by them!

Please don't take this personally but your original post and the above post are wrong and misguided in this context

I can sort of see what point you are trying to make, but there is a huge difference between someone who has lashed up a McDonald's car park special and a car that has been properly tuned and setup by people who know what they are doing

Tuner's like Litchfield don't just bolt a few bits a the car, they conduct their own thorough testing, both on the road and on race tracks, and develop upgraded parts in partnership with specialists who make OE parts for the major car manufacturers and upgraded parts for race teams (like Alcon, Bilstein & Eibach)...and I think from the above you are also trying to say that race teams who develop race cars don't know what they are doing and only the original car manufacturer should tune / setup cars, which is quite frankly a mad thing to say...the multi-million pound independent race teams that modify and prepare cars for major car manufacturers might disagree

But none of this is going to make any difference if you run out of talent or luck when you are driving beyond the capabilities of a car or a given situation, and not even Liam Doran can defy the physics of gravity and traction/friction...especially at the Ring, which has little or no run off to allow for mistakes

Edited by Dave_STI on Wednesday 21st March 18:37

[sw1000xg]

Dave_STI said:

Please don't take this personally but your original post and the above post are just wrong and misguided in this context

I can sort of see what point you are trying to make, but there is a huge difference between someone who has lashed up a McDonald's car park special and a car that has been properly tuned and setup by people who know what they are doing

Tuner's like Litchfield don't just bolt a few bits a the car, they conduct their own thorough testing, both on the road and on race tracks, and develop upgraded parts in partnership with specialists who make OE parts for the major car manufacturers and upgraded parts for race teams (like Alcon & Bilstein)...and I think from the above you are also trying to say that race teams who develop race cars don't know what they are doing and only the original car manufacturer should tune / setup cars, which is quite frankly a mad thing to say...

But none of this is going to make any difference if you run out of talent or luck when you are driving beyond the capabilities of a car or a given situation, and not even Liam Doran can defy the physics of gravity and traction/friction...especially at the Ring, which has little or no run off to allow for mistakes

p.s. Are you a troll?

Nissan cannot be out performed by a tuning comany no matter the research or the mods they put in! If Nissan released a GTR with 650bhp it would out perform a tuned car with 650bhp!

Yes I know they work alongside companies to get the best out of the car. BUT ONLY in those parts! We hear complaints about tire squeel from GTR owners so you buy AP racing brakes, which are better and don't squeel. But those brakes are not designed around the car to work with the setup Nissan have put in there!
Maybe there better or not I don't know!

But again the chassis, body i.e. aero, drive shaft tires etc, etc, are all made to work in harmony. When someone changes only half a car like you said it's McDonalds car park special.

I see others don't seem to understand that but at least you get the idea! Even if it was put across a bit wrong! But I'm no specialist!

p.s. How is stating fact being a troll!

I do read NAGTROC and see the problems there with tunned cars that DO NOT happen in a stock GTR!

So no a tuned GTR will never out perform a stock GTR designed for that power out put!

Looks like I have tread on some babies toes!

Edited by sw1000xg on Wednesday 21st March 18:27

[RWD cossie wil]

sw1000xg said:

Nissan cannot be out performed by a tuning comany no matter the research or the mods they put in! If Nissan released a GTR with 650bhp it would out perform a tuned car with 650bhp!

Yes I know they work alongside companies to get the best out of the car. BUT ONLY in those parts! We hear complaints about tire squeel from GTR owners so you buy AP racing brakes, which are better and don't squeel. But those brakes are not designed around the car to work with the setup Nissan have put in there!
Maybe there better or not I don't know!

But again the chassis, body i.e. aero, drive shaft tires etc, etc, are all made to work in harmony. When someone changes only half a car like you said it's McDonalds car park special.

I see others don't seem to understand that but at least you get the idea! Even if it was put across a bit wrong! But I'm no specialist!

p.s. How is stating fact being a troll!

I do read NAGTROC and see the problems there with tunned cars that DO NOT happen in a stock GTR!

So no a tuned GTR will never out perform a stock GTR designed for that power out put!

Looks like I have tread on some babies toes!

Edited by sw1000xg on Wednesday 21st March 18:27

Really, put down the crack pipe & step away from the Internet!

[Mr Gearchange]

sw1000xg said:

We hear complaints about tire squeel from GTR owners so you buy AP racing brakes, which are better and don't squeel. But those brakes are not designed around the car to work with the setup Nissan have put in there!

Edited by sw1000xg on Wednesday 21st March 18:27

Keep talking genius.

[Dave_STI]

sw1000xg said:

Nissan cannot be out performed by a tuning comany no matter the research or the mods they put in! If Nissan released a GTR with 650bhp it would out perform a tuned car with 650bhp!

Yes I know they work alongside companies to get the best out of the car. BUT ONLY in those parts! We hear complaints about tire squeel from GTR owners so you buy AP racing brakes, which are better and don't squeel. But those brakes are not designed around the car to work with the setup Nissan have put in there!
Maybe there better or not I don't know!

But again the chassis, body i.e. aero, drive shaft tires etc, etc, are all made to work in harmony. When someone changes only half a car like you said it's McDonalds car park special.

I see others don't seem to understand that but at least you get the idea! Even if it was put across a bit wrong! But I'm no specialist!

p.s. How is stating fact being a troll!

I do read NAGTROC and see the problems there with tunned cars that DO NOT happen in a stock GTR!

So no a tuned GTR will never out perform a stock GTR designed for that power out put!

Looks like I have tread on some babies toes!

Edited by sw1000xg on Wednesday 21st March 18:27

There is a guy called Ratty on another car forum I frequent who is very similar to you (that's not an insult by the way, he is a nice bloke)

There is no point in trying to explain or debate this with you, because you will only carry on not really understanding the point because you don't know much about the underlying facts of car physics, car tuning or car setup, which is evident from what you have said so far

You are not stating the facts..and putting words in uppercase to shout them won't change that

p.s. Are you sure you're not a troll?

[Chas-Chiro]

After reading the article and then bothering to find out some facts, not all but some facts of what really happened, I have rated this article ZERO.

Nothing but sensationalism like the Sun newspaper. I would have thought PH could do better. A lot better.

A big hand to those comments from people who have realised the severity of the accident and how lucky he is to be OK.

[GravelBen]

DanDC5 said:

Yesterday and today are private track days there, they're using the full 24 hour circuit. But he had no track cover full stop anyway.

Where does that information (re track cover) come from, do you know something the rest of us don't?

[sw1000xg]

Dave_STI said:

There is a guy called Ratty on another car forum I frequent who is very similar to you (that's not an insult by the way, he is a nice bloke)

There is no point in trying to explain or debate this with you, because you will only carry on not really understanding the point because you don't know much about the underlying facts of car physics, car tuning or car setup, which is evident from what you have said so far

You are not stating the facts..and putting words in uppercase to shout them won't change that

p.s. Are you sure you're not a troll?

So then! I don't know what i'm talking about?

Right, Nissan changed the front intakes, added rear brake ducts, put in a rear Carbon Fibre difuser, upped the size of the discs, cahnged the camber of the suspension, upped the bhp, torque, improved Cd, improved the tires (or dunlop did), changed the LC, upped the gear box so it was smoother and less noisy, improved the t/c system, 2013 BE gets a carbon rear spoiler, new lighter wheels, Carbon fibre stur in the engine bay and so on... That car is setup for 545bhp. Did Litchfield do any of that? I see it's STILL the 2008 front intake? The same rear wing, the same body work! You trying to tell me that, that rear spolier is suitable for 650bhp because I don't! Nissan changed it to a dry carbon one for the 2013 what would be needed for a 650bhp GTR? bigger? wider? certainly not the same wing!

Are you lot really that stupid to think that new suspension, engine tuning, discs, wheels, tires, is going to improve the car with out adding more down force? Or improving aero to suit the bhp torque curves you lot really are mad! To think that!

Nissan changed the car so much for just 60bhp you really think that adding ANOTHER 100bhp without changing the car is the right way to go?

Because I don't! Ues your brains instead of words!

[k-ink]

Skater12 said:

oooooh, slightly risque comment about williams there.

Not really. The car was a botched job after the FIA goal posts were moved again (shocker) and should never have been allowed to run. It was a known danger and a real risk. Still, money comes first I guess.

[RWD cossie wil]

sw1000xg said:

So then! I don't know what i'm talking about?

Right, Nissan changed the front intakes, added rear brake ducts, put in a rear Carbon Fibre difuser, upped the size of the discs, cahnged the camber of the suspension, upped the bhp, torque, improved Cd, improved the tires (or dunlop did), changed the LC, upped the gear box so it was smoother and less noisy, improved the t/c system, 2013 BE gets a carbon rear spoiler, new lighter wheels, Carbon fibre stur in the engine bay and so on... That car is setup for 545bhp. Did Litchfield do any of that? I see it's STILL the 2008 front intake? The same rear wing, the same body work! You trying to tell me that, that rear spolier is suitable for 650bhp because I don't! Nissan changed it to a dry carbon one for the 2013 what would be needed for a 650bhp GTR? bigger? wider? certainly not the same wing!

Are you lot really that stupid to think that new suspension, engine tuning, discs, wheels, tires, is going to improve the car with out adding more down force? Or improving aero to suit the bhp torque curves you lot really are mad! To think that!

Nissan changed the car so much for just 60bhp you really think that adding ANOTHER 100bhp without changing the car is the right way to go?

Because I don't! Ues your brains instead of words!

Jesus h, have you ever owned a modified car? A manufacturers car is a compromise, tuning simply unlocks the potential of that car by removing or altering characteristics against a trade off of a harsher ride for more track orientated suspension / lower life Tyre due to softer compound / slightly reduced turbo life due to working it harder..etc etc etc..

The mere details you mention about the "new" gtr are just that, adding a bit of extra grunt/ better brakes etc won't suddenly make the car unsafe!

[TheEnd]

[M400 NBL]

sw1000xg said:

So then! I don't know what i'm talking about?

Right, Nissan changed the front intakes, added rear brake ducts, put in a rear Carbon Fibre difuser, upped the size of the discs, cahnged the camber of the suspension, upped the bhp, torque, improved Cd, improved the tires (or dunlop did), changed the LC, upped the gear box so it was smoother and less noisy, improved the t/c system, 2013 BE gets a carbon rear spoiler, new lighter wheels, Carbon fibre stur in the engine bay and so on... That car is setup for 545bhp. Did Litchfield do any of that? I see it's STILL the 2008 front intake? The same rear wing, the same body work! You trying to tell me that, that rear spolier is suitable for 650bhp because I don't! Nissan changed it to a dry carbon one for the 2013 what would be needed for a 650bhp GTR? bigger? wider? certainly not the same wing!

Are you lot really that stupid to think that new suspension, engine tuning, discs, wheels, tires, is going to improve the car with out adding more down force? Or improving aero to suit the bhp torque curves you lot really are mad! To think that!

Nissan changed the car so much for just 60bhp you really think that adding ANOTHER 100bhp without changing the car is the right way to go?

Because I don't! Ues your brains instead of words!

Some cars are unlikely/less likely to be modified. Simply because tuning companies won't sell enough, so they don't bother with developement.
A Nissan GT-R doesn't fall into this catagory and Nissan know it. If Nissan optimised everything, their car would be even more expensive. So it's not feasible because they'd have less customers.
IMHO a Nissan GT-R can take mod's for improvement, but obviously only by tuners that know what they are doing through experience.
You come across as someone who thinks he KNOWS for sure that the mods undertaken are the reason that the guy crashed. You don't!