Discussion
Wikipedia defines fuel poverty as:
"In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
"In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
Rawwr said:
Wikipedia defines fuel poverty as:
"In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
The average household income is about £50k isn't it? So that is £5k per annum in fuel or £96/a tank of petrol per week. "In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
Rawwr said:
Wikipedia defines fuel poverty as:
"In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
Depends on what 'adequate warmth' is. Believe my mum then if its 9 degrees outside thats enough not to need the heating. We disagree. "In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
Condi said:
Rawwr said:
Wikipedia defines fuel poverty as:
"In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
Depends on what 'adequate warmth' is. Believe my mum then if its 9 degrees outside thats enough not to need the heating. We disagree. "In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
I know the feeling.
DJC said:
The average household income is about £50k isn't it? So that is £5k per annum in fuel or £96/a tank of petrol per week.
50k?!?! Which country do you live in. In the UK its more of about £25k. So closer to £50 a week.Edited by bobmcgod on Saturday 24th March 16:30
Yes I believe the average salary is 25k, not sure about the average household, depends how many people are in it i suppose! But household income isn't particularly relevent if all members have their own car and need to go different places.
Fuel Tax is merely an additional income tax for the 92% of the workforce who need a vehicle to earn an income.
Fuel Tax is merely an additional income tax for the 92% of the workforce who need a vehicle to earn an income.
Chrisw666 said:
While I have spare money every month I struggle to see how the allocation of what is spent could force me into poverty.
If I spend 40% of my wages on heating and 40% on petrol but still had enough food and somewhere to live would I really be living in poverty?
no exactly, its one of those stupid things to make a statistic sound worse then it is. If I spend 40% of my wages on heating and 40% on petrol but still had enough food and somewhere to live would I really be living in poverty?
I remember seeing somewhere that if you live in a council house and two siblings of different sex need to share a bedroom, they are technically homeless. What a load of b
ks!Chrisw666 said:
If I spend 40% of my wages on heating and 40% on petrol but still had enough food and somewhere to live would I really be living in poverty?
You'd need to have a large income and do many miles in an uneconomical car to manage 40% outlay on petrol yet still manage to pay all other expenses (minus heating) with just 20% of your salary.Yes by the definition of poverty in the first world you'd probably be in it, but on top of that you'd have to ask what the point was in bothering working if all you had left over was food and somewhere to live, as thats no more than somebody without a job has.
martin84 said:
Chrisw666 said:
If I spend 40% of my wages on heating and 40% on petrol but still had enough food and somewhere to live would I really be living in poverty?
You'd need to have a large income and do many miles in an uneconomical car to manage 40% outlay on petrol yet still manage to pay all other expenses (minus heating) with just 20% of your salary.Yes by the definition of poverty in the first world you'd probably be in it, but on top of that you'd have to ask what the point was in bothering working if all you had left over was food and somewhere to live.
But I should have known it would draw out those with acute autism who can't take anything with a pinch of salt.
If I had somewhere warm, dry and comfortable to live and food in my stomach without getting into debt I am not in poverty by any sensible measure. I'm sure in Britain in 2012 there are a few people who think poverty is not having the latest Iphone or superdry jacket.
While there are people in this country and in the world without enough to eat I refuse to believe that not being able to drive a car when you want, or not having a nice fat bank balance after all the monthly bills are paid constitutes poverty.
Rawwr said:
Wikipedia defines fuel poverty as:
"In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
That is not a definition. A definition defines something, it is specific."In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
A definition doesn't use words like "adequate" and how big is the "average" house?
The Wiki isn't a place you can cite, for good reason.
Chrisw666 said:
It was utterly hypothetical.
But I should have known it would draw out those with acute autism who can't take anything with a pinch of salt.
So if its hypothetical i'm not allowed to scrutinise it? You live in an interesting world. But I should have known it would draw out those with acute autism who can't take anything with a pinch of salt.
Chrisw666 said:
If I had somewhere warm, dry and comfortable to live and food in my stomach without getting into debt I am not in poverty by any sensible measure. I'm sure in Britain in 2012 there are a few people who think poverty is not having the latest Iphone or superdry jacket.
Oh here we go again. What the hell is a superdry jacket anyway?Chrisw666 said:
While there are people in this country and in the world without enough to eat I refuse to believe that not being able to drive a car when you want, or not having a nice fat bank balance after all the monthly bills are paid constitutes poverty.
I didnt say anything about a nice fat bank balance or being able to drive whenever you wanted. You lot always seem to think I've said things which I never said. martin84 said:
So if its hypothetical i'm not allowed to scrutinise it? You live in an interesting world.
Oh here we go again. What the hell is a superdry jacket anyway?
I didnt say anything about a nice fat bank balance or being able to drive whenever you wanted. You lot always seem to think I've said things which I never said.
I can't be arsed to do multiple quotes. Oh here we go again. What the hell is a superdry jacket anyway?
I didnt say anything about a nice fat bank balance or being able to drive whenever you wanted. You lot always seem to think I've said things which I never said.
You scrutinised a very base example as if it was the answer to an essay question, it seemed to be an attempt to prove your superiority by arguing the toss over something that did need to be argued about.
Can you elaborate on here we go again? Do you really believe that poverty exists in the UK for the majority? Do you think the measures used to define poverty in this country are an accurate reflection of the real life situations faced by people daily? Have you ever met a person who is genuinely struggling to get by, or have you just been told about them in the Mail?
The last statement was one of my opinion so don't be that full of your self importance to assume it was directed at you.
Chrisw666 said:
I can't be arsed to do multiple quotes.
You scrutinised a very base example as if it was the answer to an essay question, it seemed to be an attempt to prove your superiority by arguing the toss over something that did need to be argued about.
So you dont like the fact I took your remark seriously? Your base example was obviously very silly and probably only written to give you an excuse to segway to remarks bout feckless iPhone buyers.You scrutinised a very base example as if it was the answer to an essay question, it seemed to be an attempt to prove your superiority by arguing the toss over something that did need to be argued about.
Chrisw666 said:
Can you elaborate on here we go again?
By 'here we go again' I mean you lot cant get to page two of any thread without some sort of remark about people on benefits, the last Labour Government, feckless drains on society or something about how everybody else is wrong, stupid, thick etcChrisw666 said:
Do you really believe that poverty exists in the UK for the majority? Do you think the measures used to define poverty in this country are an accurate reflection of the real life situations faced by people daily? Have you ever met a person who is genuinely struggling to get by, or have you just been told about them in the Mail?
Its not me who reads the Mail mate, with PH at my fingertips I dont need the Daily Mail, its all here without censorship. Do I believe poverty exists in the UK for the majority? Not for the majority no, but I feel 'poverty' is relative. You wouldnt use the measure of poverty in the Congo to measure it here, just as you wouldnt base your business' pricing structure on what they charge in Mongolia. The measures used to define fuel poverty will never be entirely accurate, one newspaper believes the Queen is technically in fuel poverty, general statistical mechanisms never cover extremes particularly well. I do believe more people are facing tough day to day financial problems, many more people than we're led to believe. The 'average salary is 25k' statistic is quite irrelevent because millions earn far less than that. Yes I have met people who are actually struggling, you say that as though stories of struggling people are completely made up and theres no way I could meet one. I've met people with £5 maximum in the bank who literally have nothing, I've met people who spend all their earn in basic expenses and literally cannot afford even minor increases. There are a lot of people quite bad off out there, dont pretend they dont exist.
Statistical mechanisms do a good job of hiding problems we daren't acknowledge.
Chrisw666 said:
The last statement was one of my opinion so don't be that full of your self importance to assume it was directed at you.
Well you stated that opinion in reply to my post so forgive me for thinking it was sort of connected.bobmcgod said:
DJC said:
The average household income is about £50k isn't it? So that is £5k per annum in fuel or £96/a tank of petrol per week.
50k?!?! Which country do you live in. In the UK its more of about £25k. So closer to £50 a week.moot point as us all being company directors earn significantly more than the hoi polloi...
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