Discussion
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martin84 said:
Do I believe poverty exists in the UK for the majority? Not for the majority no, but I feel 'poverty' is relative.
There are a lot of people quite bad off out there, dont pretend they dont exist.
I know poverty exists, I could cite examples with names and addresses of folk I know haven't had proper family meals for weeks and homes where without school meals on certain days of the week kids would eat nothing. There are a lot of people quite bad off out there, dont pretend they dont exist.
The trouble is while it is great talking about relative poverty the reality of the people I describe above is one of distorted priorities. They spend their way into oblivion relying on high interest credit and weekly payment schemes, commit to spending benefits way in advance of reciept and often tie themselves into long term agreements for phones or Pay TV on the strength of a seasonal job.
The above isn't hyperbole or rantings of a daily mail reader but the observations of someone who spends the vast majority of his time working in and around housing estates that are classed as deprived, meeting people who are bumping along the bottom and keeps fighting a losing battle to help folk change their fundamental behaviour and priorities in the short term for longer term gains. I honestly believe that if as a society we didn't collectively value the accquaistion of trinkets over genuine happiness it would be a better place to be. While I'm sure you think that benefits aren't high enough the fact is that for a great many people it is easier not to try with a guaranteed safety net than to pull their puddings out with the glimmer of a 'things may get better' at sometime in the future.
While I have a genuine and heartfelt sympathy with those who are genuinely struggling until they have stopped trying to fund everything but the basic essentials of life (food, shelter, warmth, clothing) and have made an effort to support themselves then people in fuel poverty or any other measure don't really deserve the help of the public as they generally already have it.
R300will said:
what is the Ph average household income?
Most PH'ers are male. I would guess average income in in excess of 40k. Remember the average PH'er thread. Most who posted were on more than 40k and there are quite a few here who earn 10/20 times at through very successful businesses then there were others like tbops who earned it by not paying tax 
Tyrewrecker said:
Most PH'ers are male. I would guess average income in in excess of 40k. Remember the average PH'er thread. Most who posted were on more than 40k and there are quite a few here who earn 10/20 times at through very successful businesses then there were others like tbops who earned it by not paying tax
I wouldn't discount the propensity of those with greater salaries to crow about it on a public forum. Your average earner, on the other hand, probably sees no need to post to that effect.iphonedyou said:
I wouldn't discount the propensity of those with greater salaries to crow about it on a public forum. Your average earner, on the other hand, probably sees no need to post to that effect.
They don't, but I know they exist and some of them even posy. Andyb, gulzar, lots on ferrari/lambo section. I still think a car enthusiasts website will have an average income significantly above national average, again, my guessing is 35k and more likely over 40k at least for the males. There are probably quite a lot of super rich readers who do not post: chris evans perhaps for starters.
R300will said:
what is the Ph average household income?
Not a clue, our joint income is the sum of two people earning over the national average but well under the high rate PAYE threshold, topped up by a small hobby business of mine that means I get to do something I enjoy and earn a holiday a year from it. Rawwr said:
Wikipedia defines fuel poverty as:
"In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
The massive, ginormous difference being that heating your home isn't really a choice (you cannot control the weather outside or move everyone south!!) but driving your car is."In the UK, fuel poverty is said to occur when in order to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income to maintain an adequate heating regime."
Just wondering; if the same definition was applied to petrol and diesel, how many people could claim they were in fuel poverty?
We've come to accept that cars are 'essential' but they're not - the way we've used them and the way we've allowed other transportation options to wither and die was a CHOICE - there are alternatives.
Even if you accept things 'as they are' tho - there are still plenty of people who choose to live miles from work/shops/friends/family for some reason - who choose to drive their kids to school or to the shops or whatever - but it's still a CHOICE.
I love cars (as objects, as machines, as things to drive and as a way of getting around the place) but I'm not blinkered into thinking I'm entitled to use one or that the country should bow to my wishes to drive everywhere without looking at the cost of that...
Thus fuel prices are what fuel prices are and even attempting to compare them to household heating costs is retarded.
Edited by johnpeat on Sunday 25th March 16:06
DJC said:
Yes. I understand the average UK salary to be £23-27k depending on who you listen to.
I am assuming the "average" household has two income generators at the above salary.
This would give the average household income of between £46 and £54k.
Clearly, like all the above figures this is an average and there will be many households earning far, far more in the same way there will be households earning considerably less. For example, two income generators at the minimum wage level will have a house hold income of ~£23k.
Average is 40k take home.I am assuming the "average" household has two income generators at the above salary.
This would give the average household income of between £46 and £54k.
Clearly, like all the above figures this is an average and there will be many households earning far, far more in the same way there will be households earning considerably less. For example, two income generators at the minimum wage level will have a house hold income of ~£23k.
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