RE: PH Blog: why Lotus-Mansory makes sense
Discussion
redsq01 said:
Given that Mansory appear to have made a decent stab at making the Maclaren exciting as opposed to the blandest supercar on the road then they should have a stab at turning the Evora from a horrible blot on the landscape to a machine worthy of a 60K price tag.
+1 to this. Lotus has the mechanicals down, now they need the image.Pugsey said:
Something that happened the best part of half a century ago has little to do with what or where Lotus are now.
I could not disagree more. IMO you are the opposite of right. More wrong than a very wrong thing.This is EXACTLY what Lotus are about.
It cannot be denied that Ferrari is what it is because of its heritage. And Ferrari is very, very good at creating a mythical ideology around its history to create a powerful brand.
Lotus could have done the same but it failed to do so time after time and it continues to fail to do so now.
Bahar should make a deal with Lotus F1. Give them a royalty on every car sold. Put Senna Junior inside a car on every occasion possible, link Lotus to a glorious past and then project a clear vision for the future.
A more serious, loyal and engaged buyer is likely to emerge from that kind of PR, than the promiscuous brand hoares in R&B and rap music who would drop Lotus in a heartbeat the moment the next shiny thing comes along.
Dear Dan
Hope the flight was okay. Was the cabin correctly pressurised? You seem to have undergone some kind of neurological episode. Honestly don’t know where to start with this.
How about this line: “It’s the details that let the car (Evora) down”
Probably quite charitable that mate: I’d say details, build quality, utterly ordinary powertrain and several other things.
Given its CV, why is Mansory the right company to fix the detail? It has ruined – actually make that savaged then downed its kegs and defecated on, pretty much every supercar on sale. Its stand at Geneva is one of the most popular for the same reason John’s not Mad was a hit for the BBC - it’s an automotive snuff movie that shocks us, but we just can’t help ourselves from gawping at the awfulness. That blue Roller. Jesus.
And this is the outfit to bring some sparkle to Lotus aesthetics? Not justifiable.
Am I against the notion of Lotus seeking third party help in this area? Absolutely not, but the new-Hethel-tactic of shock-and-awe has gone too far this time. Of course Lotus has to chase the emerging-market cash, but Ferrari can still sell red cars with a tan interior, why does Lotus have to define itself through tat?
And the reason you’re cheerful about this latest travesty? “This isn’t the most worrying thing that’s happened at Hethel in the past few year”
Faint praise. Massa just had his least-worst weekend of 2012 etc.
But I’ll concede that after Brian May’s mullet and the LMP2 programme, Mansory-gate doesn’t quite make the A-list of laughable-Lotus-announcements. Call it beta-plus. Let's face it, Porter is actually struggling to lampoon the Lotus story on Sniff Petrol now, because he can't make it any more absurd.
Could I live with Lotusory if it meant an end to the company’s troubles? Perhaps . But does anyone on here really think it’ll make a difference. The Evora is a car of patchy brilliance which doesn’t even make an impression in the market place. Smothering it with carbon won’t alter that situation. People who spend £70k on a car tend to have about them a level of intelligence that allowed them to earn that sum of money in the first place – regardless of where they live on the planet.
Devil’s advocate is my middle name, but you’re wrong about this.
Enjoy the BRZ
Our Chris Harris. (I’ve had my name changed on passport, bank cards etc)
Hope the flight was okay. Was the cabin correctly pressurised? You seem to have undergone some kind of neurological episode. Honestly don’t know where to start with this.
How about this line: “It’s the details that let the car (Evora) down”
Probably quite charitable that mate: I’d say details, build quality, utterly ordinary powertrain and several other things.
Given its CV, why is Mansory the right company to fix the detail? It has ruined – actually make that savaged then downed its kegs and defecated on, pretty much every supercar on sale. Its stand at Geneva is one of the most popular for the same reason John’s not Mad was a hit for the BBC - it’s an automotive snuff movie that shocks us, but we just can’t help ourselves from gawping at the awfulness. That blue Roller. Jesus.
And this is the outfit to bring some sparkle to Lotus aesthetics? Not justifiable.
Am I against the notion of Lotus seeking third party help in this area? Absolutely not, but the new-Hethel-tactic of shock-and-awe has gone too far this time. Of course Lotus has to chase the emerging-market cash, but Ferrari can still sell red cars with a tan interior, why does Lotus have to define itself through tat?
And the reason you’re cheerful about this latest travesty? “This isn’t the most worrying thing that’s happened at Hethel in the past few year”
Faint praise. Massa just had his least-worst weekend of 2012 etc.
But I’ll concede that after Brian May’s mullet and the LMP2 programme, Mansory-gate doesn’t quite make the A-list of laughable-Lotus-announcements. Call it beta-plus. Let's face it, Porter is actually struggling to lampoon the Lotus story on Sniff Petrol now, because he can't make it any more absurd.
Could I live with Lotusory if it meant an end to the company’s troubles? Perhaps . But does anyone on here really think it’ll make a difference. The Evora is a car of patchy brilliance which doesn’t even make an impression in the market place. Smothering it with carbon won’t alter that situation. People who spend £70k on a car tend to have about them a level of intelligence that allowed them to earn that sum of money in the first place – regardless of where they live on the planet.
Devil’s advocate is my middle name, but you’re wrong about this.
Enjoy the BRZ
Our Chris Harris. (I’ve had my name changed on passport, bank cards etc)
hes" 
.toppstuff said:
Pugsey said:
Something that happened the best part of half a century ago has little to do with what or where Lotus are now.
I could not disagree more. IMO you are the opposite of right. More wrong than a very wrong thing.This is EXACTLY what Lotus are about.
It cannot be denied that Ferrari is what it is because of its heritage. And Ferrari is very, very good at creating a mythical ideology around its history to create a powerful brand.
Lotus could have done the same but it failed to do so time after time and it continues to fail to do so now.
Bahar should make a deal with Lotus F1. Give them a royalty on every car sold. Put Senna Junior inside a car on every occasion possible, link Lotus to a glorious past and then project a clear vision for the future.
A more serious, loyal and engaged buyer is likely to emerge from that kind of PR, than the promiscuous brand hoares in R&B and rap music who would drop Lotus in a heartbeat the moment the next shiny thing comes along.
Look at Jaguar. Used to make distictive looking cars, but they didn't sell. Now they make bland looking crap like the XF and XJ and they sell like hot cakes. It seems that the mass market doesn't want something that is too extreme. Give them a blancmange shape painted in silver or grey and you're onto a winner.
Plus surely there's the small matter of Mansory charging exorbitant amounts of money for their customisation, thereby completely destroying a crucial Lotus heritage USP: value for money?
If the standard Evora failed to sell at £70k, what's the chances of a Mansory-tweaked version selling at much, much more?
If the standard Evora failed to sell at £70k, what's the chances of a Mansory-tweaked version selling at much, much more?
One of the biggest criticism levelled at the Evora is price, Mansory will absolutely not assist in this department.
The next is the engine / gearbox, lack of specialness, I dont think Mansory will intervene here either.
Styling wise I think Mansory has done a superb job on the Evora, but at what cost?
So Mansory will make the car look better but elevate the already excessive price to do so. So not really helping the cause, especially for the drivers out there that want a better drivers package! Shame.....
The next is the engine / gearbox, lack of specialness, I dont think Mansory will intervene here either.
Styling wise I think Mansory has done a superb job on the Evora, but at what cost?
So Mansory will make the car look better but elevate the already excessive price to do so. So not really helping the cause, especially for the drivers out there that want a better drivers package! Shame.....
dlockhart said:
Grammar Nazi:
And then I saw it and I thought "blimey, you know, that doesn't actually look half had." And it doesn't
Shouldn't that be half BAD
as for the artical - I think the Masonary make over of the Mclaren was required - A boss of mine handed back his deposit and broughr an Aston Martin because he didnt feel special in the Mclaren. If I were to buy a new car I'd still buy a Cayman S rather than a Mansoned Lotus.
Artical? Artical? What is an artical? Pot, kettle, black.And then I saw it and I thought "blimey, you know, that doesn't actually look half had." And it doesn't
Shouldn't that be half BAD
as for the artical - I think the Masonary make over of the Mclaren was required - A boss of mine handed back his deposit and broughr an Aston Martin because he didnt feel special in the Mclaren. If I were to buy a new car I'd still buy a Cayman S rather than a Mansoned Lotus.
MissChief said:
IMO anyone would be crazy buying a £70k lotus when you can get just about anything you wanted for £70k. 911GT3RS? Probably. Any Ferrari 360 you could wish for I'm sure. Hundred's of Aston Martins no doubt as well as any number of maserati and Lamborghini offerings, not to mention M3's, M5's etc along with a Caterham for the weekend. They're just not exciting or desirable anymore
Calling cow poo on the new versus used argument. Nonsense every time it is spouted and nonsense this time. Aside from which, I have an Aston and am currently looking to swap for an Evora S, so people like me do exist. Why do I want to do this? Because the driving experience the Evora offers is absolutely stunning. I accept that for some people they might want more toys and such and that is fine for them to buy something else. I accept that there are some that only read headline power figures, fine too. Even in quality stakes the car has just received a significant upgrade but even then perhaps it wont be for some. It's in many ways a car half way between where they were and where they want to be, but still ridiculously good to drive.But to claim it isn;t exciting, read a review, look at teh car of teh year awards, go to a dealer and actually try one. For sure the car is expensive and is missing some qualities that would help it out. Make no mistake though, this is supposed to be a forum for driving enthusiasts and it's crap to claim that "anyone would be mad" to value one of the best drivers cars of the last few years.
I wonder how many of you Lotus abusers on this forum have actually bothered to drive the car, how many of you actually understand anything about Colin Chapman or his aspirations for his company? Then I wonder how many of you are brand fanboys for a rival brand or Porsche obsessives that have never gone near a Lotus because you think it doesn't make you look wealthy enough (I'll leave CH out of this in case my head explodes with frustration).
Fact is, for real driving enthusiast there is tons to love at Lotus but there are not enough such people to support the company. The change will take time but overall direction is correct and what Chapman wanted (try to challenge me on that, please). There are also a group of people who bought Elises at one time or another who resent any move up market any away from them, even claiming to be abandoned, despite the prototype new Elise already having been shown. There is little the company can do to avoid such things at this point save choose bankruptcy.
By way of a history lesson kids, those of you who think that "add lightness" was Chapman total philosophy are wrong (not by a long bloody shot). If you think the history of the company is producing Elise type stripped out cars, you are wrong. If you think Colin wanted to stay in that market you are wrong. If you think Chapman was some sort of saint who who would turn in his grave over "selling out" or bringing in a styling partner then you are so wrong you should have a word with yourself and go buy a book.
I am by no means a Lotus fanatic but I enjoy lots of different brands and qualities. It simply strikes me that Lotus is subject to more ill informed aggression and bile than any other brand. Buyers of other cars spouting crap with glee and Elise buyers turning on the company for betraying them. It's a perfect storm of hate. The Evora is not perfect, but lets be clear it is an amazing drivers car and it's far from silly from someone who frequents this forum to value that first and foremeost. The next generation of cars will make or break the strategy but for now, get out there and try a MY2012 Evora S, you will be stunned how good it is and maybe if some of you have the cash we can contribute to that next generation of cars we should all be desperately hoping come about.
toppstuff said:
Pugsey said:
Something that happened the best part of half a century ago has little to do with what or where Lotus are now.
I could not disagree more. IMO you are the opposite of right. More wrong than a very wrong thing.This is EXACTLY what Lotus are about.
It cannot be denied that Ferrari is what it is because of its heritage. And Ferrari is very, very good at creating a mythical ideology around its history to create a powerful brand.
Lotus could have done the same but it failed to do so time after time and it continues to fail to do so now.
Bahar should make a deal with Lotus F1. Give them a royalty on every car sold. Put Senna Junior inside a car on every occasion possible, link Lotus to a glorious past and then project a clear vision for the future.
A more serious, loyal and engaged buyer is likely to emerge from that kind of PR, than the promiscuous brand hoares in R&B and rap music who would drop Lotus in a heartbeat the moment the next shiny thing comes along.
I don't think the buyer popping over from the Porsche showroom will give two hoots about heritage (either past or 'created') tbo. I happen to think that the Boxster is the 'best' car in Porsche's current range and when I'm driving one Porsche's heritage means nothing - just the experience. I've had a few Lotus and they've all been a joy BUT quality was and is rubbish (compared with others) and puts a huge pool of potential buyers off I'm sure. Investment and a major uplift in quality - both real and percieved - is what may save Lotus. Not sticking a driver most non F1 fans have never heard of in a so so F1 car and banging on about a "glorious PAST".
cathalm said:
MissChief said:
IMO anyone would be crazy buying a £70k lotus when you can get just about anything you wanted for £70k. 911GT3RS? Probably. Any Ferrari 360 you could wish for I'm sure. Hundred's of Aston Martins no doubt as well as any number of maserati and Lamborghini offerings, not to mention M3's, M5's etc along with a Caterham for the weekend. They're just not exciting or desirable anymore
Calling cow poo on the new versus used argument. Nonsense every time it is spouted and nonsense this time. Aside from which, I have an Aston and am currently looking to swap for an Evora S, so people like me do exist. Why do I want to do this? Because the driving experience the Evora offers is absolutely stunning. I accept that for some people they might want more toys and such and that is fine for them to buy something else. I accept that there are some that only read headline power figures, fine too. Even in quality stakes the car has just received a significant upgrade but even then perhaps it wont be for some. It's in many ways a car half way between where they were and where they want to be, but still ridiculously good to drive.But to claim it isn;t exciting, read a review, look at teh car of teh year awards, go to a dealer and actually try one. For sure the car is expensive and is missing some qualities that would help it out. Make no mistake though, this is supposed to be a forum for driving enthusiasts and it's crap to claim that "anyone would be mad" to value one of the best drivers cars of the last few years.
I wonder how many of you Lotus abusers on this forum have actually bothered to drive the car, how many of you actually understand anything about Colin Chapman or his aspirations for his company? Then I wonder how many of you are brand fanboys for a rival brand or Porsche obsessives that have never gone near a Lotus because you think it doesn't make you look wealthy enough (I'll leave CH out of this in case my head explodes with frustration).
Fact is, for real driving enthusiast there is tons to love at Lotus but there are not enough such people to support the company. The change will take time but overall direction is correct and what Chapman wanted (try to challenge me on that, please). There are also a group of people who bought Elises at one time or another who resent any move up market any away from them, even claiming to be abandoned, despite the prototype new Elise already having been shown. There is little the company can do to avoid such things at this point save choose bankruptcy.
By way of a history lesson kids, those of you who think that "add lightness" was Chapman total philosophy are wrong (not by a long bloody shot). If you think the history of the company is producing Elise type stripped out cars, you are wrong. If you think Colin wanted to stay in that market you are wrong. If you think Chapman was some sort of saint who who would turn in his grave over "selling out" or bringing in a styling partner then you are so wrong you should have a word with yourself and go buy a book.
I am by no means a Lotus fanatic but I enjoy lots of different brands and qualities. It simply strikes me that Lotus is subject to more ill informed aggression and bile than any other brand. Buyers of other cars spouting crap with glee and Elise buyers turning on the company for betraying them. It's a perfect storm of hate. The Evora is not perfect, but lets be clear it is an amazing drivers car and it's far from silly from someone who frequents this forum to value that first and foremeost. The next generation of cars will make or break the strategy but for now, get out there and try a MY2012 Evora S, you will be stunned how good it is and maybe if some of you have the cash we can contribute to that next generation of cars we should all be desperately hoping come about.
Chris, you're really starting to sound like a regular pher now. Well done. I think?
However as someone who has been relentless in defence of my favourite car brand, I'm struggling to defend the Mansory association. Isn't it a massive kick in the balls to both Donato Coco and Swizz Beatz? Surely Coco's job is to make the cars more appealing and Swizz's job to offer high-end pretentious nonsense for PR purposes and to raise awareness of Lotus in uncharted waters. So no I don't get the Mansory thing at all. And it's a very strange move by Bahar. You don't hear of other marques having official pimpers.
But it's also very largely an irrelevance. Presumably there are people among Danny Bahar's rareified circle that are into frivolous, tasteless extravagances and such people most likely have never heard of Lotus but have Mansory on speed-dial. Maybe he's paving the way for the Esprit to find an audience among the uber-wealthy? I don't know. The association is certainly more likely to do Lotus harm than Mansory but how much harm if it amounts to a couple of show specials a year, I'm not sure.
What has done more harm to Lotus for sure is the relentless promotion of already successful german cars in the motoring press and these days here on pistonheads. Perhaps if I were recommending a sports car to a friend who didn't much like cars or driving I'd suggest a porsche. As all-rounders they are impressive. But they have done more to make the business of driving fast as dull, uninspiring and uneventful as it's possible. So to a friend who loved driving I would be doing him a disservice if I didn't insist he tried a Lotus. After driving a humble Elise and a recent boxster S 3000 miles across europe last summer, swapping frequently I was utterly astonished at the gulf in driving pleasure between the two cars. Only because I believed too much of what I'd read about the boxster in car magazines. Boxster ruled on the motorway no question. But everywhere else is was shockingly inferior. Dim-witted, numb, sterile, inert. If I owned one I'd kill myself trying to extract some life out of it. But hey it smells nicer with the roof up?! It's a high price to pay for nicer sun visors and indicator stalks.
Smelling of glue, build quality or whatever else is used as a stick to beat Lotus is absolutely irrelevant to the enjoyment of driving - really driving - down a great road. When ferraris smell of glue and have shonky build quality that all adds to the mystique (F40). When a Lotus does, it's 'buy a porsche'. Owning a porsche and owning a Lotus says a lot about your priorities. If build quality, practicality and all-round ability are yours then fair enough. But I figured car journos, especially as they don't have to put up with owning the cars they review, were more likely to be among the hard core driving enthusiasts than that.
However as someone who has been relentless in defence of my favourite car brand, I'm struggling to defend the Mansory association. Isn't it a massive kick in the balls to both Donato Coco and Swizz Beatz? Surely Coco's job is to make the cars more appealing and Swizz's job to offer high-end pretentious nonsense for PR purposes and to raise awareness of Lotus in uncharted waters. So no I don't get the Mansory thing at all. And it's a very strange move by Bahar. You don't hear of other marques having official pimpers.
But it's also very largely an irrelevance. Presumably there are people among Danny Bahar's rareified circle that are into frivolous, tasteless extravagances and such people most likely have never heard of Lotus but have Mansory on speed-dial. Maybe he's paving the way for the Esprit to find an audience among the uber-wealthy? I don't know. The association is certainly more likely to do Lotus harm than Mansory but how much harm if it amounts to a couple of show specials a year, I'm not sure.
What has done more harm to Lotus for sure is the relentless promotion of already successful german cars in the motoring press and these days here on pistonheads. Perhaps if I were recommending a sports car to a friend who didn't much like cars or driving I'd suggest a porsche. As all-rounders they are impressive. But they have done more to make the business of driving fast as dull, uninspiring and uneventful as it's possible. So to a friend who loved driving I would be doing him a disservice if I didn't insist he tried a Lotus. After driving a humble Elise and a recent boxster S 3000 miles across europe last summer, swapping frequently I was utterly astonished at the gulf in driving pleasure between the two cars. Only because I believed too much of what I'd read about the boxster in car magazines. Boxster ruled on the motorway no question. But everywhere else is was shockingly inferior. Dim-witted, numb, sterile, inert. If I owned one I'd kill myself trying to extract some life out of it. But hey it smells nicer with the roof up?! It's a high price to pay for nicer sun visors and indicator stalks.
Smelling of glue, build quality or whatever else is used as a stick to beat Lotus is absolutely irrelevant to the enjoyment of driving - really driving - down a great road. When ferraris smell of glue and have shonky build quality that all adds to the mystique (F40). When a Lotus does, it's 'buy a porsche'. Owning a porsche and owning a Lotus says a lot about your priorities. If build quality, practicality and all-round ability are yours then fair enough. But I figured car journos, especially as they don't have to put up with owning the cars they review, were more likely to be among the hard core driving enthusiasts than that.
Edited by The Pits on Tuesday 27th March 16:30
The Pits said:
Smelling of glue, build quality or whatever else is used as a stick to beat Lotus is absolutely irrelevant to the enjoyment of driving - really driving - down a great road.
You're right of course. BUT when you're being asked to write a cheque for +£30/40/50/60k then, in this day and age a potential buyer - including an out and out petrolhead like myself - IS entitled to beat lotus with that stick. High quality AND sublime driving experience should (must) be achievable at that price.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff