What car - almost an open floor for fun suggestions c.£2000

[McSam]

You seem a useful man to listen to, then! Thanks a lot for the info.

I knew about the M50 manifold swap, which is definitely something I'd want to do after a few months with the car, but I presume this is still perfectly possible on the 28i engine as seen in the E46s, like.. this one. Not the finest example I've found but staggering car/money ratio..

Maybe Bork's hit the nail on the head here? We've got something smallish, good to drive, practical, quick enough (especially if you really can see 220bhp from that inlet), not terrible on fuel, and that carries huge kudos.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

[Chris71]

When you said 'open floor' I thought it was going to be anything fun for £2k. Not something practical, economical and cheap to run that has 'kerb appeal'.

So, with that in mind, this is probably out of the question: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3691755.htm

On a more relevant note, it's hard to argue with the BMW if you can afford to insure and fuel it.

Or what about a Porsche 924S? Faster, better value and just as practical as the basic 944; you should get a good one for £2k. Not far off 328 performance and they're classier, more charismatic (barring the slightly disappointing engine note) and better handling than the BMW. They're extremely reliable for a classic, bits aren't ruinously expensive if you do need them and you could probably get classic insurance for less than the cost of your excess on a Beamer.

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 28th March 10:27

[frosted]

Rx8 , if you can live with 20mpg and fancy doing a compression test

[McSam]

I know, open floor does now feel a little misleading it certainly started out that way, as I had vague criteria which I could and would bend, and no idea even what type of car I was looking at! Consider a 9-5, an RX-8 and an MX-5 at the same time and maybe you can see why I said that just now, it turns out that of the suggestions coming forth, some I can really see myself with and some I can't quite.

I thought, had I a few more grand on this, I might just bugger practicality and get a kit car and a £500 luggage-hauling snotter, but perhaps that Dutton isn't for me just yet

I actually considered 924s a while ago, I think that would be a really lovely thing. I hear good things about their longevity and it would be a great car to own, reckon I'd really enjoy it. The problem, and there is always a problem, is that it seems extremely hard to insure one with mainstreams until I turn 21 - which isn't until November. Anything with a Porsche badge seems to give problems in this department. A very nice idea, though.. Could I find a decent classic insurer at my age?

[Chris71]

McSam said:

I actually considered 924s a while ago, I think that would be a really lovely thing. I hear good things about their longevity and it would be a great car to own, reckon I'd really enjoy it. The problem, and there is always a problem, is that it seems extremely hard to insure one with mainstreams until I turn 21 - which isn't until November. Anything with a Porsche badge seems to give problems in this department. A very nice idea, though.. Could I find a decent classic insurer at my age?

Finding a classic insurer won't be easy, but it might be possible. I'm not that much older than you and I was about 21 when I had mine.

I went with Lancaster if that's any help, but a lot have tightened their requirements (on age amongst other things) since then. Other companies to consider in no particularly order would be: Richard Egger, Adrian Flux, Footman James, Competition Car Insurance, Heritage, Manning UK, A-Plan (Thatcham branch for specialist policies), AON...

To give you an idea, I pay £212 a year for my 924 Lux and about £400 for my Chimaera 500 on classic policies, yet I was quoted nearly a grand for an E36 328 Sport from a selection of mainstream insurers.

Even if you're over 25 an increasing number of insurers are raising the bar to 30 (I had to prove I had experience of RWD cars over 250bhp to get the policy I have on the TVR because I'm under 30...) so it will be very, very tricky at your age. But if you can find a company that will cover you the premium will be unbelievably cheap compared to a mainstream policy so it's worth a few hours on the phone to various specialists just in case something can be done.

[McSam]

Alright, thanks for the information. I did run a check on the moneysupermarket classic insurance comparison thing, came back answers above four grand, so.. That was helpful

21 is the magic number at which mainstream insurers suddenly stop saying "no" outright - seemingly classic ones too. I would be looking at a quote of £1030 for an E46 328i, which isn't unbearable as I'm halfway through a policy so it would only need a couple of hundred paying, but still.

If I can find a couple of nice 924s (quickly enough that I don't go and impulse-buy a 328i in the meantime ) then I'll make some calls about the insurance. You never know!

[Andy665]

I've had E46 coupes in the past and the E36 is more fun to drive, the way I see it;

E36 developed by engineers and then put on sale

E46 developed by same engineers then trawled through marketing department before being put on sale

E46 is a good car but in my experience you feel more detached from the fun of driving than in a well sorted E36

Figures may show an E46 can lap quicker, generate more g etc etc - to be honest I don't care about the figures, whats important to me is the size of the smile it puts on my face - for me the E36 wins

[C.A.R.]

Browse the classified ads of retrorides.com if you fancy something old-skool and slightly different.

A £2k RX8 will cost you that again in 12 months. Avoid. I spent 1 fruitless afternoon trying to start one which would turnover but not fire. Did everything that Mazda recommended. Nothing.

Unfortunately MX5s are the best option for your criteria...sacrifice practicality for endless fun. It's no compromise...

[Devil2575]

McSam said:

I knew about the M50 manifold swap, which is definitely something I'd want to do after a few months with the car, but I presume this is still perfectly possible on the 28i engine as seen in the E46s

It isn't. The M50 manifold swap can only be done on the M52 engine fitted to the E36. The early E46 had the M52TU IIRC and the M50 conversion dosen't fit.

Besides, the early E46s had a problem with the bootfloor/rear subframe parting company. If you want an E46 you should be looking at the 330/325, not the 328/323 IMHO.

[XJ40]

I'd be looking at this black series 3 V12 manual, ever so cool! Get a V12 while you still can. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1980-Series-3-Jaguar-V12...

[McSam]

Devil2575 said:

McSam said:

I knew about the M50 manifold swap, which is definitely something I'd want to do after a few months with the car, but I presume this is still perfectly possible on the 28i engine as seen in the E46s

It isn't. The M50 manifold swap can only be done on the M52 engine fitted to the E36. The early E46 had the M52TU IIRC and the M50 conversion dosen't fit.

Besides, the early E46s had a problem with the bootfloor/rear subframe parting company. If you want an E46 you should be looking at the 330/325, not the 328/323 IMHO.

Ah, bugger, that's a shame! I'd have to find some more elaborate means of freeing up some horses after a while, then.

I was aware of the rear subframe issue, but I also understood it was a lot rarer than internet exacerbation would have you believe?

As regards the decision between E36 and E46, I really do think that after two years with a '96 A4, either is going to be a fantastic step up in driving experience, so I don't think I'd miss what I didn't have if I went with the later car. To boot, it's also a lot nicer to look at and sit in and I just feel like I'd be happier spending this kind of money on one. It has to be said, though, if this question were about a track car rather than an everyday, I would be all over E36s, and definitely plan to have one some day the question now becomes whether to go 3-Series or not, rather than which one it should be..

I think I'm well off the RX-8 idea now, seems too much hassle, too much risk and too much fuel.

I love that Series III Jag! Fantastic, and it looks like a really nice example too. I thought about X300s too, I must admit, but I think they're maybe a little too waftastic for my aims, and going older leads me into the whole "I would if I had a daily I could call on in a pinch" thing again. Lovely to look at, though

[samdale]

wst said:

Mk1 Mr2. Similar to the MX5, but more practical, and popup headlights. Simple as anything to work on as well.

McSam said:

I feel the MR2 looks a little too dated for what I'm after. Otherwise a great idea, though, and still on the table.

MK2 MR2. Maybe even a turbo, insurance dependant.

Easily ticks all your boxes as long as you don't need back seats. Even the boot is pretty reasonable.
Hard to find more performance for the money I reckon. 240bhp ish, 5.something to 60. If my maths is right then a turbo is probably around 200bhp/ton as well

[kayzee]

Defcon5 said:

182/172 Cup?

MSTRBKR said:

Cllliooooo 172/182

Pretty much same as what you are looking for, I went for a Clio 182

[Checkmate]

I'd say an e30 325i, maybe a sport if you can get one, or an e36 328is. Meets most of your criteria and both are great cars. A friend had the e36 and did the manifold mod and after that it was quite an amusing thing. Jolly quick and rather sideways. Much to my disgust managed to keep with my impreza turbo on straights. Interior isn't the best on the e36, but liveable. The e30 is fine because you expect it from an older car.

[JayTee94]

Have you thought about a Lexus IS200?

Should find a decent one for £2,000.

[Devil2575]

Does the IS200 meet his power to weight requirements?

Bit slow aren't they...

[JayTee94]

Oops Sorry.

It would still be a decent car though.

[McSam]

samdale said:

MK2 MR2. Maybe even a turbo, insurance dependant.

Easily ticks all your boxes as long as you don't need back seats. Even the boot is pretty reasonable.
Hard to find more performance for the money I reckon. 240bhp ish, 5.something to 60. If my maths is right then a turbo is probably around 200bhp/ton as well

Actually, to my embarrassment, it was the Mk2 I was thinking of when I said dated!

I agree that they are definitely serious performance for the money. The only things that worry me are potential costs, as it would be easy to pick one that hadn't been maintained properly, and of course the practicality issue. That's actually another favourite for a second / track car, has been for a while, but I'm not sure I could run one day to day as my only car. Have many done so?

The IS200 is indeed a decent car, but if I was going to sacrifice driving involvement I'd probably get a 9-3 Aero just for the giggle factor.

I think I'm kinda down to hunting for the right E46 328i now.. Partly for the all-round ability, but also for it seeming a safer bet than some. While it seems obvious, isn't a car I'd thought of at all before doing this, so very useful it's been


ETA - Something just occured to me. I see everywhere, after further research, that people say it's not really possible and certainly not easy to put an M50B25 (E36 325i) intake manifold onto the M52TUB28 engine in the E46 328i. I think the E46 325i uses the same manifold which still won't fit, but what about the one on the E46 320i? That engine is M52TUB20, implying it has all the same double-VANOS and other gizmos that the E46 328i's engine has. Would that one fit?

Be handy if it would, because the 320i makes 74bhp/litre, giving a theoretical 207bhp from a 328i.

Edited by McSam on Wednesday 28th March 18:56

[samdale]

McSam said:

samdale said:

MK2 MR2. Maybe even a turbo, insurance dependant.

Easily ticks all your boxes as long as you don't need back seats. Even the boot is pretty reasonable.
Hard to find more performance for the money I reckon. 240bhp ish, 5.something to 60. If my maths is right then a turbo is probably around 200bhp/ton as well

Actually, to my embarrassment, it was the Mk2 I was thinking of when I said dated!

I agree that they are definitely serious performance for the money. The only things that worry me are potential costs, as it would be easy to pick one that hadn't been maintained properly, and of course the practicality issue. That's actually another favourite for a second / track car, has been for a while, but I'm not sure I could run one day to day as my only car. Have many done so?

The IS200 is indeed a decent car, but if I was going to sacrifice driving involvement I'd probably get a 9-3 Aero just for the giggle factor.

I think I'm kinda down to hunting for the right E46 328i now.. Partly for the all-round ability, but also for it seeming a safer bet than some. While it seems obvious, isn't a car I'd thought of at all before doing this, so very useful it's been

Dated? How very dare you
The sort of money you have to spend would get you a really decent example. Once you start getting below say £1500 then you might have to be careful.
As far as costs are concerned, other than fuel (which it's been pretty decent on) mine hasn't really cost me a penny.

Though I don't have any experience of them, from what I've heard it'll be harder to find a decent nick 328 that won't end up costing you!
To drive I'd reckon the extra few hundred Kgs the BM is packing would show
Guess the only thing I can't fully defend is only having 2 seats. Then again how much Celica can you get for that money

[anonymous-user]

I would take a good look at an RX8 if I were you

There is a lot of bks spoken about them which is mostly untrue it has had the effect that the arse has fallen out of the market, it will be worth next to fk all when you are done with it but so will any 2k car

If it goes pop (which it may but so may any 2k car) there is a thread on here about a chap putting a 1.8T vag lump in his and another chap doing it too, these engines are 10 a penny and highly tuneable and if you do fancy a project in a couple of years there will be a lot of knowledge around by then

Have a read of some of the RX8 threads think it could be a great answer for you